DeadHead

Wow, this thread drift is truly pathetic.

NoStep

Ha! I know...funny how some boneheads always turn it into a regional-vs.-major argument.

I'm glad to know some major/military pilots who respect the hell out of the tough job regional pilots do...multiple times a day in all conditions.

"USMCFlyer" posted an excellent point on a similar thread to extract the "who" from this learning experience and focus on the "what and why" (paraphrased).

Another learning example (a-la Sully & Skiles) might be the crew who aborted landing a few years ago because, if memory serves me, during the flair something didn't "feel" right even though all cockpit indications were normal, (their gear wasn't down/locked)...think it was an Am. Eagle ERJ crew?

Just reminds me that no matter how mind-numbingly routine the job can become, to fight complacency. You never know when you're going to have "That Day" in your aviation career...unless you're Tim Martins!

DeadHead

Funny how pilots will always elevate themselves above the esteem of their own peers. I guess that does hand in hand with arrogance.

I have actually flown with captains who have said that Sully may have done a good job with the emergency, but he still hit the birds. Then they go off on this lecture about how preventing the bird strike in the first place would have been even better.

I must have missed the wildlife evasive maneuver lesson when I was training to be a pilot.

SpeedyVagabond

Why assume that those capts were being arrogant or putting themselves above a peer? They have a good point with respect to complacancy. The cvr backs up that he was enjoying the view of the Hudson and presumably the city. Same thing I've done on that departure many times. Where should my, and his, eyeballs be pointed though? I'm just saying. . .
Wasn't "see and avoid" drilled into your head all through flight training? Or maybe at your flight school it was "see and sightsee some more".

Jinrai Butai

It was in lesson 1 - See and Avoid.

A flock of Geese are pretty easy to see even at 250 kts. Maybe if he wasn't looking at the Hudson and breaking sterile cockpit blabbering about how great it looked then things would have been different. If so, then he wouldn't be rich and labeled the world's greatest pilot either.

The birds got their revenge on Sully later.

Paybacks a beotch!

DeadHead

I always thought that "see and avoid" concept applied to 1950's business-style attired gentlemen wandering around the ramp area with a clipboard, but then again I did always have difficulty grasping some concepts in aviation.

NoStep

Oh COME ON!!! What exactly is the "see and avoid" maneuver you recommend when a flock of suicidal geese play "chicken" (pardon the pun) with a jet? On the LaGuardia 1 SID, (Whitestone Climb, I think?)...seriously?

I'm not for deifying Sully (Jeff Skiles was there too), but he did almost as amazing job as United's (Sioux City) Al Haines!!

If you wanted to, just like a drill instructor, you could bust the chops of the sharpest troop out there. The whole point of threads like this is to learn from mistakes others made, compared to others who did it right. Now that's "see & avoid".

SpeedyVagabond

You're right on. Those varmints are the worst to run into.

SpeedyVagabond

I thought that was what we were doing here. I'm taking a lesson away. That lesson is a gentle reminder to keep my peepers where they should be. Scully made an outstanding judgement in accepting his predicament and committing to the river. Many less thoughtful mortals have target fixated on a real runway and crashed and burned as a result. However was that action necessary in the first place? I think there is some merit to that question as those capts you flew with inquired. Climbing out of LGA I can't see the Hudson under my nose. That begs the question where were his eyes? If they had been forward, maybe they would have seen a flock of geese, which are pretty easy to see, as they climbed up into them. Just an objective observation.

USMCFLYR

Even if his (Scully's) eyes weren't out in front of the nose - weren't Skiles (who was PF)? Did he see the birds coming? I don't know - I remember a [WHOA!] comment or something like that right? Maybe he was scanning the entire area for threats instead of staring out the front windscreen. The times that I have missed birds (or did they miss me?) - I was able to take some pretty aggressive action. Would this be normal procedure in an airliner?

I can see where this is going.
In any case - some will always focus on the wrong points and there isn't much you can do about that. All we can hope is to take what will help each and every one of us in the future and leave others to their lessons too.

USMCFLYR