Plan for higher pay scales?

Reply Subscribe

Page 3 of 6

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

04-13-2010 | 08:51 AM

#21

minimwage4

2 days off

Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 1,853

Likes: 0

From: Embraer Systems Analyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by CANAM

If your aircraft says Express, Connection, Link, Eagle, ect., on the side, your company will have to bid on that flying. Capitalism dictates the lowest bidder will get the contract, so your company had better be VERY competitive in today's market economy. So long as another company will underbid your company, the pay will not go up. Sorry.

That's completely false. The company will pay whatever they have to pay to keep their airline running. If the market determines that 30 bucks an hour is the new 1st year pay industry wide, that's what they'll offer. Also, competitive does not have to mean cheap labor, look at the latest round of contract awards along with industry humiliation of Mesa. Also companies don't have to be cost competitive with every single industry bottom feeder just ones that provide the same service, bad deal if you're a t-prop guy.

04-13-2010 | 08:54 AM

#22

skywatch

Gets Weekdays Off

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 1,053

Likes: 0

From: Economy Minus

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimwage4

The RLA is a complete disaster for us. I am surprised there hasn't been an uprising. What profession do you know of where you're paid less than what someone in the same position made 20 years ago? The RLA assures that.

Typewriter repair?

I would not be so quick to blame the RLA for the pay scales - after all, the unions negotiated them. Do you think a 15 year RJ captain is going to go on strike to raise FO pay? They could raise it tomorrow, as long as they were willing to give up some of theirs - do you think they would ever agree to that?

Point is, the FO pay is like that because the union negotiated it like that - and got higher rates elsewhere...

04-13-2010 | 09:38 AM

#23

CANAM

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2008

Posts: 439

Likes: 0

From: 1986 LeBaron Convertable

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimwage4

If the market determines that 30 bucks an hour is the new 1st year pay industry wide, that's what they'll offer.

Market? What market? If somebody is willing to fly a CRJ900 for $21.00/hr., then sombody else will surely do it for $20.00/hr..

This is how it's been in the regional airline world forever. Take a look at Piedmont or Air Wisconsin pay scales in the 1980s. Make sure you're sitting down before you do this!

The only thing the market dictates is that the lowest bidder will usually win a contract.

04-13-2010 | 09:44 AM

#24

odog1121

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 117

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by skywatch

It's amazing how some people still do not get it. The company is willing to spent X amount of dollars on pilot payroll(totaling pay rate/ benefits/ soft money..etc). It's up to the union to slice up that pie. FO's are paid $35/hr not because the company dictate it, it's because your union wanted $95 for CAs and $35 for FOs. Your company couldn't care less if the rates were $115/$15 or $75/$55 as long as the total pilot payroll is at or below the negotiated overall rate of X.

I remember a few years back when the company wanted to offer FOs more money in terms of sign on bonus and retention bonus. My union would not allow the company to do so unless the rest of the pilot group received something as well.

Anyways, your union has more to do with creating the payscale than your company.

Last edited by odog1121; 04-13-2010 at 09:57 AM.

04-13-2010 | 10:00 AM

#25

mwa1

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jan 2008

Posts: 510

Likes: 0

all professions start out w/o licenses and once a group of people get in and get theirs, they ALWAYS try to find a way to keep others out and protect it.
I have flown with some really sharp FO's with low time and great training and some high time FO's that should NEVER be allowed an upgrade.
it does not matter if an applicant has 1500 hrs - did not the Colgan crew have that and more in addition to the specialized training in ice, emerg procedures and the like?

04-13-2010 | 10:13 AM

#26

minimwage4

2 days off

Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 1,853

Likes: 0

From: Embraer Systems Analyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by odog1121

Anyways, your union has more to do with creating the payscale than your company.

Then why are pay scales low and stagnant? Are you saying that unions suck?

04-13-2010 | 10:21 AM

#27

minimwage4

2 days off

Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 1,853

Likes: 0

From: Embraer Systems Analyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by CANAM

Market? What market? If somebody is willing to fly a CRJ900 for $21.00/hr., then sombody else will surely do it for $20.00/hr..

And how exactly do airlines get that person? By lowering mins. That's what happened during the last wave. It's very simple, when you don't earn something, you're happy with anything. On the other hand, if you paid your dues, you expect better. There has to be a shift in fundamental mentality for there to be any change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CANAM

This is how it's been in the regional airline world forever. .

That's why everyone is advocating the 1500 rule.

04-13-2010 | 10:38 AM

#28

SUX4U

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 1,288

Likes: 0

From: B756 FO

1500 hours will not have that large of an impact at first. Plenty of guys out there on the street have that time, AND are willing to work for peanuts still because the pay and benefits at a regional right now is better than what they are currently doing. So you can count out the 1500 hour rule to effect pay. Lets also not forget that back before the huge hiring spree the likes of Mesa had 1000 total 100 multi set at minimums and they were having no problem attracting people with that time. An extra 500 hours or so is not going to be an earth shattering change right away. Down the road yeah it has the chance to prove helpful for us.

04-13-2010 | 10:53 AM

#29

minimwage4

2 days off

Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 1,853

Likes: 0

From: Embraer Systems Analyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUX4U

Down the road yeah it has the chance to prove helpful for us.

That's what it's all about. I don't think anyone expects higher mins to have an immediate effect on contract pay.

04-13-2010 | 11:13 AM

#30

odog1121

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 117

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimwage4

Then why are pay scales low and stagnant? Are you saying that unions suck?

Only one side of the pay scale is low. Wages across all industries have been stagnant. Unions certainly do not suck but they did set the structure of the pay scale.