jayray2

I have yet to meet a Pinnacle pilot that was glad to be at Pinnacle. No lying, I have never in person heard anything positive about Pinnanle from a Pinnacle employee. On the other hand, I have never meet a Skywest employee that had anything negative to say about working at Skywest. An honest question, are there really people that are glad to be working there? Maybe it is just a Pinnacle thing to always insinuate getting bent over, which is the usual response Pinnacle pilots use to describe their current situation. Are all these pilots exaggerating or are things really that bad?

Airsupport

The Mesaba furloughs that I have flown with are happy to be here. In fact one said, "Man it feels good to be flying again. I am glad the mec was able to get us on here instead of waiting till the contract was done and integration was over. I was tired of being unemployed" He was on his 3rd furlough. So yeah there are people who are glad to be here. I for one am glad to be here. Pinnacle has done what I needed it to do for me. I haven't been furloughed. I upgraded after 2 years. I have been a captain for 3. I come in do my job and go home. Sure the reserve rules suck and I have been on reserve for 3 years (I actually am starting to get build up lines consistently which is a huge improvement) but thats the way it is till we get a new contract. The bent over part is about either not having a contract or being on reserve. Remember we have been negotiating for 5.5 years. I would say that equals getting bent over for a long time. If you asked the majority of line holders they would say they are happy. Most of them on average have 14 days off. They come in fly and go home. What has everyone around here in a ****y mood is not having a contract. That is the biggest problem.

And come on man. You have never met a Skywest employee who had anything negative to say about Skywest? I know several Skywest pilots that are not happy there. Go read their pay increase thread. In fact there were several guys from my flight school that went to Skywest when I came to Pinnacle who wish there were here at pinnacle. They would be captains here instead of being several hundred seniority numbers away from upgrade at Skywest. Also they aren't to happy with the way things are going with the "new" management. And now with changes to their health care and Skywest buying all these other airlines things aren't looking as rosy as they have been.

Bartok

Fences are bad for pilots. Good for management.

We need the ability to bid the entire system that will be created by this merger.

Don't you want to be able to hold the best position in the base of your choosing?

ALPA has a fair formula for figuring out SLI, some people at all companies will like percentage, some will like date of hire, it all comes down to when you were hired.


One contract. One seniority list. This is what we all need.

Keep your mind on the goal.

lolwut

If the seniority list is fairly created, you wouldn't need fences at all. Fences keep certain "key" positions only for the pilots of the airline bringing them.

Though Colgan pilots argue that their fast upgrades are key positions, Mesaba pilots argue that their -900s are premium flying and therefore key positions, and Pinnacle pilots argue that their ability to fly a jet from day one is a key position..... nobody in this merger is really bringing anything special to the table.

The SLI will not bump anyone out of their current seat / domicile. You don't need a fence to protect your current job, it will be protected from that anyways. Without fences, all pilots will be able to rightfully bid all positions which their seniority can hold. I don't see how anyone can argue this being a bad thing except for those who have a selfish agenda to push.

The net result is that, over time, the better positions will go senior and the less than desirable positions will go junior. People will make the decision "do I want to be a senior Saab captain, junior CRJ-200/Q400 captain, or senior CRJ-900 FO?". The number of airplanes and bases will allow these decisions to be made and that increases flexibility, options, and freedom for all pilots. Your seniority will allow what it allows. For some, that may mean recognizing that fast upgrades (and extremely abnormal in these days at that) may come to an end and that growth will be more evenly distributed.

Fences are a bad thing... its not like one of the 3 companies involved is bringing an transoceanic 747 operation to the table. Everybody here flies regional aircraft... though some better than others, all the planes and all the pay rates and all the work rules all fit in the same category>> "regional outsourced labor". Pinnacle's size, Mesaba's -900s, and Colgan's growth aren't at all substantial enough to make anyone "better" than the other 2.

Cruise

Ding ding ding.......WINNER!

"Fair and Equitable".....without pushing individual agendas, working for the common good of the resultant group.

AxialFlow

We need something more than just "bad for pilots." Please explain

Not about me, it's about "what's fair"

AxialFlow

No, but it will take upgrades away from pilots who were here pre-merger. 3 year fences should suffice.

lolwut

If you're referring to the Q400s, those airplanes shouldn't have really ever been at Colgan in the first place, and now the pilots who bought and paid for them (Pinnacle) will actually get to benefit from the additional planes. Seems like a good thing to me. Colgan is in the process of being shut down. Eliminated. Ceasing to exist. A lot of this whole merger and combination is to further that process and have a place (Mesaba) with which to transfer the assets and parts of the operation that are still worth something. The huge hiring, growth, and upgrading going on at Colgan was abnormal, completely outside of industry norms, and was going to come to a stop at some point.

All future Q400 deliveries be delivered to Mesaba, being put on the Mesaba certificate. Colgan doesn't "own" those planes and Colgan pilots don't "own" those upgrades. Would it be fair to "fence" future furloughs from now on to only being former Mesaba pilots after the SLI? Of course not.

Personally I think, that if done right, these acquisitions and mergers are going to be a big gain to all 3 groups, which none had a rosy future alone.

Pinnacle is a large 50 seat operator that has been unsuccessful in obtaining new flying.

Mesaba was on Delta's chopping block. The Saabs were going to be gone and those -200s were probably next. If still owned by Delta, they'd probably be looking more and more at Comair's fate every day.

Colgan was, prepurchase, not financially viable, and postpurchase continued to be so, in addition to multiple issues surrounding the Buffalo crash. They're going from being part of a small turboprop operator with a bad reputation to part of one of the largest regional jet operators in the country.

Everyone needs to start thinking of this airline's future as one list, one contract, one group of airplanes, and one pilot group. That includes one group of upgrades available to anyone who has earned the seniority to hold it. All pilots in the group will be able to share in many more opportunities as far as bases and airplane types go, and a lot more career stability than could've been afforded to any of the parts individually. Its a good thing and the faster the pilots from each group and consider themselves "one" and eliminate the past, the better.

Bartok

What about all of the -200 FOs that would love to upgrade in the Saab or the Q400 if their seniority will hold it?

Under your 3 year fence they will not.

Where is movement coming from on the -200s?

Growth? No way. Attrition? No so much.

The old Pinnacle is gone, the old Mesaba is gone, Colgan is gone.

We have to think of this as one group, with total free access to what we can bid for.

One contract, one list, no fences.

PCLCREW

I agree... No fences... Let 9E and Mesaba people who have been held back for years take what they can.. Colgan is gone and since many 9E and Mesaba FOs are senior to both Colgan Capts and FOs its time to let them take what is coming to them.
Tear it up.