This isn't about a "bet" we made when we got hired. Just because you chose Colgan doesn't make you a winner in this blend. Based on the APC data upgrade time is actually pretty close, within 6 months of service.

Junior captains for all three groups

Colgan capt (saab) Feb-2007 (Q-400) Nov 2006
Pinnacle capt Oct-2006 (and will be getting closer to Dec 2006 soon)
Mesaba Capt Jun-2007

The fairest way for this integration to happen is based on DOH. There is no huge disparity in the years of service each airline will take to hold upgrade, so years of service should be the dertermining factor of your new seniority number. Since the difference between the three airlines is about 6 months a 1 year fence will protect all parites involved who have earned thier upgrades at thier respective companies and equalize the rest of us who don't make it by then. I support DOH plus a fence (as a compromise). There is no more cut and dried, fair and equitable way of determining seniority.

 

One concern if DOH is used.. A precedent is now set.. How would you feel if the company further bought airlines such as comair, eagle, horizon where the seniority/DOH relativity would be HIDEOUS to the 9E/9L/XJ group if done by precedent down the line?

 

No matter how its done before purchase, all seniority should be assigned as date of hire for those on property from the date of purchase of Colgan and Mesaba by Pinnacle.

Why? Because I'm sure we can all agree that the lists should've been combined immediately. If they had been done as such, DOH is how the pilots would've been placed on the seniority lists. Plus it, mostly, absolves the problem of the allocation of the Q400s.


How many pilots do Pinnacle and Colgan have each currently? How many are remaining on respective lists from when the date the purchase was announced?

 

Just wanted to point out one minor error.... junior Q400 CA hire date is 2008. Yes... the Q went waaaaaay junior to the Saab.

 

Using DOH in this case under ALPA merger policy (basically the MECs of each group must come to a consensus) would be an example of us taking three similar pilot groups and using common sense to integrate lists. Comparing us to Comair or Eagle is apples to oranges. They are (or were) much larger groups with a much different seniority breakdown. Comparing XJ, 9E and 9L is an much closer compairison. Lets be frank, the largest prize in the list integration is captain positions, if you use that as a bar to measure our groups we are very similar. Of course the compromise to the DOH would be a 1 year fence, so a large chunk of the guys at Colgan who chased the Q-400 growth wouldn't get burned and could still upgrade and many of us wouldn't get leap frogged by 300 people who were hired after us.

 

Well, we have 9 guys comprised of 3 MEC's to work on this issue... I think we should get the JCBA and send em to work... ;-)

 

235 posts on this topic and this one makes the most sense. This is something that will have to be discussed during merger negotiations. There is a very real posibility that one, if not all three, of those airlines will be sold in the next few years and Pinnacle Corp just may make a move. Nobody wants DOH with any of those airlines and you are 100% correct when you talk about setting a precedent. You can fight for DOH now and gain a few spots only to lose it all back and then some if we merge with another carrier.

 

Actually, there is. It's called relative percentage, and it's the most likely method. Don't get your hopes up on DOH. It opens up big problems for future mergers.

 

Interesting to hear the views from everyone.

My view for the most fair integration is simple relative senority. If you bid 75% now you should bid 75% in the combined company.

Anything else would be a failure.

We all went to each company for different reasons and to speculate on why is impossible. To try and figure out what is important to each of us is also impossible.

We all bid and expect to hold a line or reserve based on where we fit on our own list. Relative senority would keep the status quo for everyone involved.

Yes DOH would make a diifferent list but would unfairly harm senior pilots at Pinnacle and Colgan.

Lets face it the top of the list is where everyone wants to be and weather you lucked into it by airline choice or you spent alot of years to get there it should not be taken away by this merger

 

The problem with purely percentage method is you have 5-7 year Colgan guys bidding the same as 15 year 9E and XJ guys, not gonna happen.

They will take relative and DOH into account.

It will happen just like Delta, ask a Delta guy how they did theirs and then you'll know.