But there are some loses.

A 74 pax TP (which according to the higher-ups at Colgan are the future) is below 50 pax JET rates. Depending on who one talks to, 50 pax jets days are numbered. So management may be looking at giving the 50 pax jets the moon knowing the 74 pax TP will replace them.

Saabs have taken a hit (except for the current Mesaba CAs). The standard pay rate (the rate every non Mesaba CA gets) is BELOW Mesaba pay rates. So Saab pilots (including the Mesaba FOs who upgrade) will be working BELOW current Mesaba rates. If the TA for Saabs was a continuation of Mesaba's rates (even including a signing bonus for current Mesaba Pilots), I would have been on board. But lowering the rate for the vast majority of 30ish seat TP pilots is a sell out.

Honestly, I don't know how I will vote. There is a lot of good in the TA, but there are several areas I am concerned about.

 

The "74 pax TP" pay is INITIALLY lower than the 50 seat RJ and will be on parity by 2014. Also, the "new" pinnacle has a contract for all their -200 flying well beyond the amendable date of this contract so I don't think its fair to say that their days are numbered.

Like everybody else, I agree that the lower Captain scale on the SF3 leaves a bitter taste, but that needs to be taken in the context of the entire deal. The lower FO rates are simply a product of splitting the "blended" rate at Mesaba.

Please don't make up your mind on how to vote based on a "preliminary" summary and some APC chatter. Talk to your reps and P2P members, go to the roadshows, and certainly READ the language when it comes out. THEN make an informed decision. If you want to vote "no" at that point I fully support you.

 

Freedom had contracts, too. Food for thought...

 

Don't shoot the messenger, i have made my views clear and if you can't read or use the search function then by all means fire away at me

but to answer your question..the sole purpose of the w2 method was to make up for the loss of the 2% COLA raise we missed out on every year since may 05. If you look at it in that perspective it is fair. we might not like it but in that perspective it is fair. The guy with the higher payrate lost more of thart raise than the the guy with the lower payrate (2% of 80/hr is more than 2% of 60/hour is more than $30/hr). So given equal credit hours over the years, a 20 yr guy got more than a 15 year guy who got more than a 4 year guy and so on.

 

As an XJ 200 Captain I resent that remark. I get NO pay raise. Look what you guys get:

CJC Q400CA 7.1% to 21.1% Increase, 9.8% Average
CJC Q400FO 14.3% to 23.4% Increase, 20.0% Average
CJC SF3CA 10.9% to 17.5% Increase, 14.5% Average
CJC SF3FO 1.9% to 23.4% Increase, 11.8% Average

And these are just the hourly rate changes...You don't even know how to respond to the rules you will get cause you don't see just what you gained.

If you feel that strongly about being wronged don't wait for the general vote. Get all your disgruntled CJC coworkers together talk to your LEC's and they will tell your MEC how you want them to vote, don't let the TA come out for general vote. That's how we do things at XJ. I believe the MEC's need to be unanimous. Heck even if it's 51% I am sure some 9E guys are unhappy too. Follow the steps and the TA might not get to the general vote.

There are some areas where we (XJ) actually lose a little bit.

 

Looking at this from three different angles, we all win with this agreement.

XJ- You guys were looking at loosing a ton of flying with the saabs leaving. I remember talking to some guys who were junior captains that were worried about being able to stay on the list as rsv FO's in MEM. This agrement secures your seniority and job in a way nothing else could. Sure, maybe you didn't gain much in payrates from this deal, but you all just got a snapback raise and you weren't scheduled to even start negotiations for a couple years. The largest gain for your group in this is the elimination of a whipsaw and threat of a serious Go-Jet type maneuver from management to cut your seniority off at the knees.

9L- You guys are years from a contract on your own, that is assuming that you even exist in the next couple of years. The company wants to get rid of the name and you have very few protections if they just decide to close the doors and another Corp holdings airline happens to win the bid for that flying. The scope clause in this contract and SLI will very likely lead to a windfall for 90% of your pilots and you will be able to work under an agreement that you would NEVER repeat NEVER be able to negotiate for your FIRST CBA. I'm sure it is impossible to not envy the split rates for the saabs, but it's a pill that is definately worth swallowing for the great good of your group. In my opinion Colgan pilots are hitting the jackpot with this agreement because; 1) You get a CBA that was never attainable on your own. 2) You get a huge seniority windfall after integration. It takes around 4-5 years to upgrade at XJ and 9E, you guys get the best of both worlds, a quick upgrade and an awesome contract. Yes, I'm jealous.

9E- This is the type of CBA I was hoping for with TA1. Respectable work rules, pay protections and a good raise. Although the healthcare will be going up and the 401k is seriously lacking the overall package is very good for our pilots. I think there is litle chance we would be able to equal this agreement outside of a cooling off period from the NMB, but then we would still have to worry about the whipsaw if we decided to strike. This is something we all deserve and its about time this gets settled.

Anyone from any airline that is going to vote NO because of this item or that item needs to open thier eyes and see that this is a great deal for all of us. This is a very stingy management group and we definatly got a lot more out of them than they were willing to give to any of us alone. I say lets take the money and RUN. You can't change an operation overnight, but for 9E and 9L this is about as close as it gets.

 

I agree with you. This proposal would help us ALL out in some way or another. Usually with these agreements its "baby steps" to get what we want but with this its a "Homer" IMHO.

I can' speak for 9E or XJ guys but coming onboard with 9L, I urge our group to look at the BIG picture and this my friends, is as good as its gonna get for now.

 

I was a sure yes vote the first time i read the summary now i am undecided. I will have to go to the road shows and talk to a rep about a few things now. I really dont see what XJ is gaining by this. Minor raise a few good things in work rules and 9L planes. We just secured our own flying we might be able to get all our saabs back if we stay separate. 9L has no protection they could shift all that flying to XJ and shut them down. I am just not sure if XJ should take basically the same contract. I thought negotiations were supposed to make our contract batter? For XJ it really doesn't. I understand for the greater good of the 3 companies this is good but for our MEC to pass this I am not sure it is in the best interest for XJ pilots. For as much as they said management wants this done it really is not that great. (AT least from an XJ pilot stand point)

 

I think when you see the final language you will see many loopholes closed that are currently in your agreement. You are lucky to have worked for a friendly management team that respected the "intent" of your CBA. I have news for you though, 9E management will walk right through those holes with a few new "interpretations". For one, you can kiss call in honest goodbye, since it is in your FOM CIH is one revision away from being a thing of the past. For a pilot group that will soon be full of commuters that is not a good thing. Thats just one example, but you do stand to gain from this if you look a little farther than payrates. Obviously its your choice, but you may want to consider the negative aspect of being "on your own" if your group votes this down.

 

First of all, I dont think for one second that we got the flying on our own. Its pretty obvious that we got that flying because of our association with colgan and the company assuming there will be an SLI soon. We are just so overstaffed its easier to let us staff it.

Second of all did I read that right that you think that pinnacle corp would shift the colgan flying to us if we stayed separate? If anything it would be the other way around.

No matter if you think we are just getting small gains in this contract, a gain is a gain. I honestly think we are stronger together than separate.