XJT Whipsaw
01-17-2013, 09:52 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by Saabs
So telling people that you hope they don't have kids as they would be so stupid they couldn't survive? Give me a break. That has nothing to do with voting on a TA. I'm just glad that we are more expensive than go jets and compass still. It would suck lowering the bar like Skywest or expressjet since they have to be the second lowest paid DCI carrier.
01-17-2013, 09:58 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by unit monster
The airline as a whole has to have the second lowest costs, pilot costs are only one item in the grand scheme of an airline. Your phrasing attempts to imply ASA pilots need to be the lowest paid in DCI, not correct.
01-17-2013, 10:46 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by Stud7094
Have any of you crj guys actually read the PBS report put out by the l-XJT scheduling committee? Has you mec come up with a comparison on anything other than flight line? Here's the way I see it and may be wrong. The Asa side has a pride problem. They sold you on flight line that it was the best thing out there. Here come XJT scheduling telling you that smart pref is not only better but can do way more than the crap you guys like so much. Your flight line could be so much better but your work rules suck ass. Our line bidding is a pain in the transition but our work rules are better than most majors. And the guys that are hell bent on keeping flight line are on full time alpa flight loss. 5 guys to do flight line? We have less and actually have to build lines. Also think about who runs this thing. Senior guys who don't want to give up anything but they don't realize that they are senior and their QOL won't be affected. Before you guys start pointing fingers just look in house first. You didn't buy us so get over it. Time to get a jcba and a sli. If we don't that's fine since l-XJT is making money and your aren't. Plus you work for delta and they will someday piece your flying out since you are not cost competitive.
I just have a couple of questions on the whole PBS thing...Are there any other carriers currently using Smart Pref? How many other carriers are using Flight Line? Why do you guys think management is behind Smart Pref as opposed to Flight Line?
Either way I am so tired of hearing the same thing in almost every thread. All the bickering back and forth between the groups and what have we really accomplished? Nothing. I feel like I am listening to a fight between my 2 and 4 year olds. Both MEC's need to work out their differences in a professional manner and collectively get a good contract for us as a pilot group. I would love to see the XJT work rules implemented as a group for us but knowing any current airline management, they will be looking for concessions.
By the way Stud, don't act like you are immune to what could happen. It seems that United is watching closely what Delta is currently doing and won't be far behind in throwing their whip around. Regardless of which mainline carrier is swinging the whip, it affects us equally. Pinnacle is/was Delta's current victim but that doesn't mean we won't be next for them or for United or American.
01-17-2013, 12:46 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 661
You guys who think you know whats going on in negotiations need to actually talk to those actually at the table. The XJT MEC never said no pbs or nothing, that was the guys on these internet forums. We have said. Flightline will not work for our group the same way you have said line bidding wouldnt work for yours. We have offered a compromise but arent married to it. We have invited your group to offer a compromise, they have refused. Management is very frustrated with the ASA MEC and their unwillingness to compromise and has finally realized ALPA is not all about screwing managment and there can be and is a group of guys over here that is willing to work with them while still protecting our pilots and what they hold important to them. This is why we have moved into these section 26 negotiations with only us and the company. They have identified both by what they have seen and what ALPA national reported to them after their visit that there is one pilot group that is willing to work with them and move forward, and they have chosen to move forward with that group. No flame, no hate, these are simply the facts as things stand right now.
01-17-2013, 01:42 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Originally Posted by JetBlast77:1332919
You guys who think you know whats going on in negotiations need to actually talk to those actually at the table. The XJT MEC never said no pbs or nothing, that was the guys on these internet forums. We have said. Flightline will not work for our group the same way you have said line bidding wouldnt work for yours. We have offered a compromise but arent married to it. We have invited your group to offer a compromise, they have refused. Management is very frustrated with the ASA MEC and their unwillingness to compromise and has finally realized ALPA is not all about screwing managment and there can be and is a group of guys over here that is willing to work with them while still protecting our pilots and what they hold important to them. This is why we have moved into these section 26 negotiations with only us and the company. They have identified both by what they have seen and what ALPA national reported to them after their visit that there is one pilot group that is willing to work with them and move forward, and they have chosen to move forward with that group. No flame, no hate, these are simply the facts as things stand right now.
01-17-2013, 02:37 PM
#46
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Yep. Right here!
Originally Posted by JetBlast77
You guys who think you know whats going on in negotiations need to actually talk to those actually at the table. The XJT MEC never said no pbs or nothing, that was the guys on these internet forums. We have said. Flightline will not work for our group the same way you have said line bidding wouldnt work for yours. We have offered a compromise but arent married to it. We have invited your group to offer a compromise, they have refused. Management is very frustrated with the ASA MEC and their unwillingness to compromise and has finally realized ALPA is not all about screwing managment and there can be and is a group of guys over here that is willing to work with them while still protecting our pilots and what they hold important to them. This is why we have moved into these section 26 negotiations with only us and the company. They have identified both by what they have seen and what ALPA national reported to them after their visit that there is one pilot group that is willing to work with them and move forward, and they have chosen to move forward with that group. No flame, no hate, these are simply the facts as things stand right now.
01-17-2013, 03:26 PM
#47
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by JetBlast77
You guys who think you know whats going on in negotiations need to actually talk to those actually at the table. The XJT MEC never said no pbs or nothing, that was the guys on these internet forums. We have said. Flightline will not work for our group the same way you have said line bidding wouldnt work for yours. We have offered a compromise but arent married to it. We have invited your group to offer a compromise, they have refused. Management is very frustrated with the ASA MEC and their unwillingness to compromise and has finally realized ALPA is not all about screwing managment and there can be and is a group of guys over here that is willing to work with them while still protecting our pilots and what they hold important to them. This is why we have moved into these section 26 negotiations with only us and the company. They have identified both by what they have seen and what ALPA national reported to them after their visit that there is one pilot group that is willing to work with them and move forward, and they have chosen to move forward with that group. No flame, no hate, these are simply the facts as things stand right now.
It is the XJT MEC that wants to work with management and be reasonable, and it is the ASA MEC that wants more and is being unreasonable.....Is that correct?
What exactly is the ASA MEC asking for that is more than what the XJT MEC is asking for?
My only beaf with the ASA MEC at this point is not being more aggresive in it's public statements regarding what has really been going on....They need to set the record straight.....
01-17-2013, 03:56 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
Wow....talk about revisionist history....Let's see if I have this right....
It is the XJT MEC that wants to work with management and be reasonable, and it is the ASA MEC that wants more and is being unreasonable.....Is that correct?
What exactly is the ASA MEC asking for that is more than what the XJT MEC is asking for?
My only beaf with the ASA MEC at this point is not being more aggresive in it's public statements regarding what has really been going on....They need to set the record straight.....
It is the XJT MEC that wants to work with management and be reasonable, and it is the ASA MEC that wants more and is being unreasonable.....Is that correct?
What exactly is the ASA MEC asking for that is more than what the XJT MEC is asking for?
My only beaf with the ASA MEC at this point is not being more aggresive in it's public statements regarding what has really been going on....They need to set the record straight.....
01-17-2013, 06:06 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by JetBlast77
Joe, the XJT MEC has said Flightline will not work for us, but we are willing to discuss ANY OTHER SYSTEM. ASA has said no. The company has said costs have gone up with flightline from even the line bidding days, they are willing to move forward with ANY OTHER PBS SYSTEM. ASA guys have said no. When ALPA national came down and put our MEC in one room and yours in another, they asked the ASA guys if they were willing to lose RFPs and possible growth oportunities if it meant standing their ground on flightline, their answer was YES. ALPA national reported back to the company saying there was nothing more to talk about, both sides stopped talking, the company requested we open up section 26 for new pay rates for larger aircraft. That IS what happened. What have I missed? What "record" needs to be "set straight"?
01-17-2013, 06:24 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Originally Posted by JetBlast77
Joe, the XJT MEC has said Flightline will not work for us, but we are willing to discuss ANY OTHER SYSTEM. ASA has said no. The company has said costs have gone up with flightline from even the line bidding days, they are willing to move forward with ANY OTHER PBS SYSTEM. ASA guys have said no. When ALPA national came down and put our MEC in one room and yours in another, they asked the ASA guys if they were willing to lose RFPs and possible growth oportunities if it meant standing their ground on flightline, their answer was YES. ALPA national reported back to the company saying there was nothing more to talk about, both sides stopped talking, the company requested we open up section 26 for new pay rates for larger aircraft. That IS what happened. What have I missed? What "record" needs to be "set straight"?
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