I can possibly understand the disgruntled attitudes toward the first group of pilots that started the Go Jets operation, however tagging any and all pilots that choose to work for the company from now until eternity with the "scab" mantra is incorrect by definition and reality. Again, be upset at the company and possibly the original pilots, but this high school B.S. is crazy!

 

By the most common definition, a "scab" crosses a picket line. GoJet pilots did not do that.

Every single one of them, however, has decided to put their own agenda above that of the TSA pilots whose hard work & substandard contract provided the profits Hulas used to create GoJet in the first place. Every single GoJet pilot has made a statement by their employment that they condone the alter-ego whipsaw Gojet provides Hulas to destroy the bargaining position & power of TSA pilots. Every single GoJet pilot has their own reasoning for stepping on the backs & seniority of TSA pilots, but I've not heard one express regret that their employment caused downgrades & furloughs at TSA.

Yes, I have a problem with that, and its not "high school BS".

 

Why would current Go Jets pilots appologize for mistakes that may have been made by their forefathers when the company was started? If this became society policy, none of us would be able to work because we would all spend entire days researching those who our ancestors have hurt in the past so that we could go and seek them out in order to give a long overdue and forgotten appology. There comes a time to let it go, and my point is that once the company is fully established, the incoming employees should not have to bear the wrath for mistakes that were made prior to their existence.

Lets pretend that I was going to work for Go Jets, which I am not. I can not see how me going to work for Go Jets at this point would in any way hurt any TSA pilot directly, therefore I do not believe an appology by me is in order. It sucks what happened to TSA, but the reality is that it is business and as long as we have a free market economy, the possibility will exist that these sorts of business desicions will be made...whether right or wrong in the eye of the beholder.

I believe that unions have helped laborers in the past, but I also believe that many unions have hurt laborers in the recent past due to not being willing to give up a little (or sometimes a lot) in the tough times, after reaping the benefits of the good for so many years. In some ways I feel that the unions have brought many of these types of actions on themselves and all of the people that they "represent".

We seem to have reached a point in society where people feel a certain entitlement, and a view that "the employer should be greatful to have me". I agree with this statement, however in the process it seems that we have forgotten that we need to be greatful to the employer as well. Without one, there could not be the other, no matter which side you are on.

 

Step off your academic high horse and out of the 135 world, and come into the 121 world.

If you don't think airline unions have given up a TON post 9/11, you are either being dishonest or just plain ignorant. Unions exist in the airline industry because historically management has not proven receptive to the needs of their employees. The fact that Hulas created a Holdings company for GoJet (to get around APA scope) and refused to staff it with TSA pilots (ala Republic Airways) tells the truth. The fact that there was already an initial cadre of off-the-street pilots at GoJet before TSA management even started negotiating with ALPA cements the case, and the fact that the "take it or leave it" offer from TSA management was a crappy, crappy deal providing that initial cadre of GoJet pilots furlough protection proves Hulas wasn't interested in honest negotiation with TSA ALPA.

All TSA ALPA asked for was to fly those planes at industry-average rates. In response to that, TSA pilots got screwed with an alter-ego carrier that damages their bargaining power. Is that fair bargaining? Is that what TSA ALPA 'deserved'? Every pilot that works at GoJet currently or in the future is acknowledging by accepting employment they codone what happened to TSA pilots.

I never worked for TSA, but I had many friends who lost their jobs after moving to STL directly because of GoJet. Time may pass and new pilots may forget or never know the story about GoJet, but every single time I hear "Gateway" on the radio it ****es me off. If you lost your job, or had friends lose their jobs in a similar situation, it would **** you off too.

 

I can understand that it upsets you to have had, or have a close tie to someone who has been through this. I am not saying that the methos in which Go Jets was created was correct. I realize that some people got screwed in the deal. I just don't see new pilots for Go Jets being made to feel as though they should appologize when they didn't really do anything wrong, and / or stab anybody in the back. Yes they may work for an "alter-ego" airline, but they aren't the ones who went in to start it. Again, I can understand why people are upset, but hating all pilots from a company where a few pilots made a poor decision just doesn't seem right to me.

You are correct, my experience is limited to 135 and always will be due to this very reason. It is not worth the stress and hassle to me trying to keep track of who I'm supposed to like and who I'm supposed to hate today. I don't want to feel that if I don't agree or disagree with a popular, or unpopular belief, that I can't be part of the "in crowd". That is what I meant earlier when I made the High School comment. It really does seem to me that the 121 realm has become high school for adults and it is very unattractive.

Again, I do feel for those who have been pushed out due to questionable business and employment practices. My point is simply that at there has to come a time when we need to be able to get by this and move on...it is not healthy to live to hate someone or something that much. What goes around comes around...so let it. If Hulas did it once, he will do it again...aren't they voting in a new union contract...how long before this contract doesn't work for management?

 

most of GoJets Cpts are TWA/American guys who lost their jobs...Why don't u get P***ed Every time that you hear American on the radio...
I guess those guyy haven't been stept on by other ALPA pilots..
I did not see any of the Waterski pilots having the b***s to go to the managment and say that what they are doing is wrong...not only them but their MEC did not do ****** to protect them.
By the way we do have a contract that we are about to vote and much better that TSA contract...
Maybe you need to find out what is the background of GoJet pilots(most of them) and then start calling them names..This last statment is not for you personaly..general.

Its really sad seeing pilots arguing for something that unfortunately we have no power unless the whole industry goes on strike..

 

I have asked multiple times on multiple message boards for details about GoJet's TA. As of yet, I have received ZERO information.

Unless I get some facts, I'm gonna call BS on that "much better than TSA" bit.

 

This has been a very good thread without the unproductive remarks of Saab that led to insults..... Back to the issue. PSA's decision not to extended Gojets Pilot's jumpseat agreement is theres and that kind of attitude should not be encouraged for every other carrier. My understanding of Gojet pilots are that most of them are furloughed TWA / American guys that needed to do the one thing that we all love to do and should all have a passion for and that is to fly. There were also a few of the so called street CA. The guys of the street totally jumped the guns but the guys that were furloughed had been there and moved for bigger and better things but as we all know this is an industry that has very limited stability were forced to look for jobs else where they took the first thing that they could get and I don't think that they were looking to undercut any TSA pilots. The management at TSA was wrong for undermining the CBA for their pilots. At our our company it is a terminal offense to deny another pilot of another carrier a jumpseat because of your own option of who they fly for. We all have one passion and we need to stand together as one instead of treating each other like a bunch of second class citizens because of who you work for. if my understanding is wrong please someone correct me, Did TSA not have first grabs for the flying on the 70 seaters and their MEC screwed that up for the rest of the Pilots? Guys en gals we have other things to worry about instead of worrying if there is a Gojet pilot trying to jumpseat on your airline. that's my two cents!!!!

 

I understand your point here but I think it is misguided. There were pilots furloughed at Trans States because of a fleet reduction, or elimination I should say, of the J-41s, in coinsident with two EMB-145s being "parked". The EMBs were taken off line because the San Antonio hub flying Hulas went after didn't work out. This has nothing to do with GoJet and neither does the J-41 reduction. If GoJet never existed someone else, not TSA, would be flying the same routes with 70 seaters and the TSA guys would still have been furloughed.

Now, within three months of the first furlough, Trans States was holding a very large, I believe around 30, new hire class. So... there aren't any furloughted Trans States guys.

There are, however, furloughed pilots at most every legacy carrier. We, as regional jet pilots, routinely fly routes that they fly or flew with larger aircraft. So, using your logic, you should be upset at yourself for taking their jobs. I doubt you are. The primary purpose of multiple certificates under one holding company is to circumvent the collective bargaining agreement between major airline pilots and their respective employers, whether the flying is on one seniority list or multiple lists. Is it fair for me to say some Chautauqua pilot is directly responsible for the job loss of American pilots, Delta Pilots, etc.? No.

 

"Every single one of them" is an overgeneralization and I could just as easily say that every single one of the TSA pilots has put their agenda over that of the GoJet pilots. So, what? When, and if, you voted this past election, it doesn't matter who you voted for, you put your agenda above that of about 50% of America. Does that mean we should all wear Democrat or Republican stickers and turn our noses from each other as we pass?