Pinnacle
04-23-2013, 09:39 PM
#291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Those Saabs and Qs became unprofitable after the JCBA was signed. That flying was barely sustainable at the old payrates let alone Q rates that caught up to new CRJ-200 rates in 2015.
BTW, the same thing can be said for the PCL ATL -900 flying for Delta. Let us not forget that.
04-23-2013, 10:46 PM
#292
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Those Saabs and Qs became unprofitable after the JCBA was signed. That flying was barely sustainable at the old payrates let alone Q rates that caught up to new CRJ-200 rates in 2015. As for Delta, you will recall when 9E Corp closed up BOS US Airways flying to better staff the Qs and Continental Express flying. Why would Delta pay for that? They are not going to pay to staff their competition.
They realized what they were paying in terms of rates was subsidizing the other feed and took control.I have no idea what point you are trying to make anyways, PT signed the contracts with United, not the pilots. And the Q rates matching a jet were a good thing for pilots. Would you rather the Q rate have been less? Keep casting your stones of doubt and hate, it truly is entertaining.
04-24-2013, 04:31 AM
#293
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 555
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Fair enough. I feel like some part of it I can't get over because 3 idiots ruined everything and I feel like that part of my life was a waste of time all the way to 5th year pay. I'll get over it at some point.
04-24-2013, 05:52 AM
#295
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by skyxbomb
You're bonkers if you think a national seniority list would solve anything! I don't even know where to begin.
And it's not the just regional pilots that are cuthroat. Majors are just as bad. Except they complain with a little more tact especially on public forums and probably make less spelling/ grammatical errors.
And it's not the just regional pilots that are cuthroat. Majors are just as bad. Except they complain with a little more tact especially on public forums and probably make less spelling/ grammatical errors.
04-24-2013, 04:38 PM
#299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,904
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
Shy hates Pinnacle more than I hated Colgan............... 
04-24-2013, 06:18 PM
#300
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
Originally Posted by Flitestar
Yup. In my scenario on my entire previous post (not only what you quoted) I address the POSSIBLE outcome in case Delta wasnt bluffing.
It really doesn't matter if you and I think they where bluffing. The moment the company, and more surprisingly, the UNION guarantees a wind down as a possible outcome if we don't pass that pos contract, it is every pilot's responsibility to include that to their equation and must give it some weight in their decision making process. Now, probably you and me would give it very little weight, since we may both think they are bluffing, and we would vote accordingly. Other pilots may give it more weight based on their own perspective and opinion of the situation, and vote accordingly also.
The truth is, no one can really tell what would've happened if the contract would've been rejected. As much as we may think they were bluffing, we will never know. The other regional pilot groups certainly didnt know for a fact what was going to happen to 9E if the new agreement was rejected. Hell, if they would've known for a fact that 9E was never going to shut down I bet every one of them would offered their full year salary and their first born to 9E in order to vote no...
It really doesn't matter if you and I think they where bluffing. The moment the company, and more surprisingly, the UNION guarantees a wind down as a possible outcome if we don't pass that pos contract, it is every pilot's responsibility to include that to their equation and must give it some weight in their decision making process. Now, probably you and me would give it very little weight, since we may both think they are bluffing, and we would vote accordingly. Other pilots may give it more weight based on their own perspective and opinion of the situation, and vote accordingly also.
The truth is, no one can really tell what would've happened if the contract would've been rejected. As much as we may think they were bluffing, we will never know. The other regional pilot groups certainly didnt know for a fact what was going to happen to 9E if the new agreement was rejected. Hell, if they would've known for a fact that 9E was never going to shut down I bet every one of them would offered their full year salary and their first born to 9E in order to vote no...
We old timers have heard it before ... from Fred Reid and Leo Mullin about Comair, 14 years ago and candidly, Comair had a hell of a run until they mistakenly thought they were real airline pilots and struck without any brand or scope. They finally achieved some measure of scope, but when it expired they died as a result of longevity costs and gross mismanagement by Delta. My favorite comment by a reporter was "Comair was a multi Billion dollar company, then Delta bought them."
Richard Anderson (and perhaps more importantly Ed Bastian & Mike Campbell) would have reason to be emboldened by the National Mediation Board determination that GoJets was not a single transportation system simply because they operated different airplanes to get around a scope clause. For according to some rumors that is exactly how Delta intends to operate Pinnacle, just as GoJets is to Trans States.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf
All in, it was a better deal for GoJets than Trans States, as management picked "the best deal."
ALPA and Delta pilots were complete morons to allow multiple pilot groups to sit down and do competing deals with one management team.
Back in the salad days of Comair and ASA I always thought "man this is ugly, I am surprised Delta pilots do not want to resolve this with a single list." Once again, I have the same thought.
However, international problems and stories about RJ's being "last decade's problem" are used to distract the membership from whatever effect a group of pilots operating airplanes better than the mainline narrow body fleet* working for less pay might have on mainline negotiations.
So, what does mainline trade in 2015?
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