Stop the Whipsaw!
07-30-2013 | 04:03 AM
#41
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07-30-2013 | 04:25 AM
#42
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From: FO
07-30-2013 | 09:40 AM
#43
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$65,000
Saw the ATP ad where you can get your zero to hero for $65k. Well lets look at that for a second and see if this job is a good idea or not. Say after you take the course and after 6 months you finish with all your ratings. (Not likely but maybe possible) You now have a job as a CFI. Making $15,000. You work for a year and get the 1500 hours needed to work at a regional. Ok it will most likely take 2 years but for simplicity sake….
Earnings - Living expenses = What's left over.
$15,000 - $15,000= Wash
$20,000 - $15,000= +$5000
$25,000 - $15,000= +$10,000
$30,000 - $15,000= +$15,000
$35,000 - $15,000= +$20,000
$40,000 - $15,000= +$25,000
So after 6 years of living off of $15,000 you have paid off your certificates.
I think realistically it is like a home mortgage and you will be paying for 20 years.
But then your an airline pilot so what the hell right?
Saw the ATP ad where you can get your zero to hero for $65k. Well lets look at that for a second and see if this job is a good idea or not. Say after you take the course and after 6 months you finish with all your ratings. (Not likely but maybe possible) You now have a job as a CFI. Making $15,000. You work for a year and get the 1500 hours needed to work at a regional. Ok it will most likely take 2 years but for simplicity sake….
Earnings - Living expenses = What's left over.
$15,000 - $15,000= Wash
$20,000 - $15,000= +$5000
$25,000 - $15,000= +$10,000
$30,000 - $15,000= +$15,000
$35,000 - $15,000= +$20,000
$40,000 - $15,000= +$25,000
So after 6 years of living off of $15,000 you have paid off your certificates.
I think realistically it is like a home mortgage and you will be paying for 20 years.
But then your an airline pilot so what the hell right?
However, your point is valid. The payoff for all the work is a LONG way down the road for pilots these days (if it comes at all) when compared to an engineering or tech degree.
It is already hard to fill classes at the regionals, I think it's just going to get harder. (Phrasing!)
07-30-2013 | 12:51 PM
#44
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Reclined
It's a great idea, but you guys need to work on one list, one contract. Make the job like the steel workers union. Get a committee going now to form a rough idea of how a SLI would work, and take all of your contracts reviewed and mash them into one contract. Form a single bargaining unit, instead of individual negotiating committees, and go from there.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
07-30-2013 | 12:56 PM
#45
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: B737 /FO
It's a great idea, but you guys need to work on one list, one contract. Make the job like the steel workers union. Get a committee going now to form a rough idea of how a SLI would work, and take all of your contracts reviewed and mash them into one contract. Form a single bargaining unit, instead of individual negotiating committees, and go from there.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
07-30-2013 | 02:16 PM
#46
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Hot tub for now
Figures are a bit off. No interest accounted for in them. Also, I made between $35-$45k/year instructing.
However, your point is valid. The payoff for all the work is a LONG way down the road for pilots these days (if it comes at all) when compared to an engineering or tech degree.
It is already hard to fill classes at the regionals, I think it's just going to get harder. (Phrasing!)
However, your point is valid. The payoff for all the work is a LONG way down the road for pilots these days (if it comes at all) when compared to an engineering or tech degree.
It is already hard to fill classes at the regionals, I think it's just going to get harder. (Phrasing!)
Really my point is, if you can live off of $25/day for the next 5-6 years then this is the job for you.
Otherwise, maybe getting into a profession that had a better ROI is the better choice.
These figures are startling nevertheless.
We have no pilots in the pipeline. Why take concessions?
07-31-2013 | 06:32 AM
#47
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I was trying to keep it simple.
Really my point is, if you can live off of $25/day for the next 5-6 years then this is the job for you.
Otherwise, maybe getting into a profession that had a better ROI is the better choice.
These figures are startling nevertheless.
We have no pilots in the pipeline. Why take concessions?
Really my point is, if you can live off of $25/day for the next 5-6 years then this is the job for you.
Otherwise, maybe getting into a profession that had a better ROI is the better choice.
These figures are startling nevertheless.
We have no pilots in the pipeline. Why take concessions?
Would love to see a national union/committee get going for all regional pilots. Management will fight hard to make sure that does not happen.
07-31-2013 | 06:34 AM
#48
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,967
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It's a great idea, but you guys need to work on one list, one contract. Make the job like the steel workers union. Get a committee going now to form a rough idea of how a SLI would work, and take all of your contracts reviewed and mash them into one contract. Form a single bargaining unit, instead of individual negotiating committees, and go from there.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
Best thing would be to get out of ALPA. As I understand it, ALPA National was pushing the company proposal more than the company itself was. They certainly are not representing the pilots.
Sue ALPA for the money needed to start your own union just for regional pilots. It shouldn't be hard to prove DFR with the letters they sent to the Eagle MEC.
07-31-2013 | 07:55 AM
#49
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From: Reclined
Looks like ALPA got their whipping boy - EGL MEC Chairman Tony Gutierrez, to sabotage your STW movement. After the EGL MEC status reps spent a great deal of time calling and emailing their counterparts at the other regionals, this guy Gutierrez (who is out of office in just a few weeks I'm told) tries to hijack your movement by calling for a regional MEC phone conference summit.
On the call he tells everybody they're organizing an in person meeting in Washington... But you non ALPA airlines can not attend.
So, a movement that was not affiliated with any specific union got hijacked by this jackass so he could wreck the unity, and protect ALPA Nationals cash cow of union dues.
You STW guys need to call your own teleconference again, and leave this jackass out of the equation. He represents ALPA, NOT pilots. That is, when he's not swiping union member money for personal use. I'm told he had to repay thousands of dollars to ALPA from just a few days worth of his receipts, and now it's been turned over to federal investigators. Why do any of you listen to him.
On the call he tells everybody they're organizing an in person meeting in Washington... But you non ALPA airlines can not attend.
So, a movement that was not affiliated with any specific union got hijacked by this jackass so he could wreck the unity, and protect ALPA Nationals cash cow of union dues.
You STW guys need to call your own teleconference again, and leave this jackass out of the equation. He represents ALPA, NOT pilots. That is, when he's not swiping union member money for personal use. I'm told he had to repay thousands of dollars to ALPA from just a few days worth of his receipts, and now it's been turned over to federal investigators. Why do any of you listen to him.
07-31-2013 | 08:49 AM
#50
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Looks like ALPA got their whipping boy - EGL MEC Chairman Tony Gutierrez, to sabotage your STW movement. After the EGL MEC status reps spent a great deal of time calling and emailing their counterparts at the other regionals, this guy Gutierrez (who is out of office in just a few weeks I'm told) tries to hijack your movement by calling for a regional MEC phone conference summit.
On the call he tells everybody they're organizing an in person meeting in Washington... But you non ALPA airlines can not attend.
So, a movement that was not affiliated with any specific union got hijacked by this jackass so he could wreck the unity, and protect ALPA Nationals cash cow of union dues.
You STW guys need to call your own teleconference again, and leave this jackass out of the equation. He represents ALPA, NOT pilots. That is, when he's not swiping union member money for personal use. I'm told he had to repay thousands of dollars to ALPA from just a few days worth of his receipts, and now it's been turned over to federal investigators. Why do any of you listen to him.
On the call he tells everybody they're organizing an in person meeting in Washington... But you non ALPA airlines can not attend.
So, a movement that was not affiliated with any specific union got hijacked by this jackass so he could wreck the unity, and protect ALPA Nationals cash cow of union dues.
You STW guys need to call your own teleconference again, and leave this jackass out of the equation. He represents ALPA, NOT pilots. That is, when he's not swiping union member money for personal use. I'm told he had to repay thousands of dollars to ALPA from just a few days worth of his receipts, and now it's been turned over to federal investigators. Why do any of you listen to him.
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