favila008

TD look out, there's a duck comming straight at you, oh my God!

favila008

Toilet Duck, pardon my ignorance, but who is that in your avatar?

wild4theuniform

Janet Leigh from the famous shower scene in PSYCHO...I think!

LAfrequentflyer

Go back and read my posts. I've never advocated working for GoJets, Scabbing. I'm a simple person. I look at the facts and reach a conclusion. I see nothing wrong with a four year degree from a state school and rating from ATP. If you can find a good FBO - get your ratings there. I won't be going to another FBO anytime soon.

I'm researching Gojets - I hear they have a union now. Does that still make them scabs? Were they scabs in the first place? My dislike of the company is based on their taking work away from their brothers/sisters at TSA as a alter-ego. Had the pilots said 'no' there would be no GoJets. They deserve what they have waiting for them down the road.

I don't get excited talking about ATPs.

I went to UND for my AF ROTC requirements. I like your school / town...Beautiful place the frozen north...

-LAFF

rickair7777

Good philosophy.

freezingflyboy

I never said you advocated working for GoJets per se. I also never said you are a bad person for getting your ratings at ATP, in the same way a simple passenger is not a scab for flying on GoJets. Having a union does not remove the label of scab (which has been placed upon GoJets pilots because they circumvented the seniority list and CBA at TSA for their own gain) in the same way serving a prison sentence does not change the fact that you robbed someone.

See if you can follow this logic LAFF:
CFIs are just another tier of the aviation industry, yes? More or less, an unregulated, free market tier. Your buddies at ATP are working for what amounts to $6/hr ($1200/mo for 200 hours work) BUT they get to build the all important multi-time faster to make the jump to the next level (regional). In the process they undercut the instructor out at the local FBO who charges what his time is actually worth. How is that different from the guy who takes the job at GoJets in order to get that all important turbine PIC faster in order to make the jump to the next level (the majors)?

Like I said, you never specifically stated "Go work for GoJets" but your logic supports that conclusion. Like I said, consider your position very carefully.

Glad you enjoyed your time at UND. I wish UND did a better job informing students about the labor side of airline equation (they do a great job with the economics and management side).

LAfrequentflyer

There is no comparison between GoJets and ATP. One was created to circumvent an established union 121 carrier by management for their own good.

ATP is a business that offers flight training and CFI jobs to graduates that qualify.

There are plenty of well paying CFI jobs out there. If you don't want to work for ATP you don't have to. I'm sure many just got their ratings there and went to work somewhere else.


--LAFF

freezingflyboy

**sigh**
I'm sorry, logic seems to be lost on you... I don't know how you can say there is no comparison between the two. Just like there are good instructor jobs, there are plenty of well paying regional jobs out there too buddy. But every underpaid, overworked regional job takes away from the good regional jobs out there. The same applies to the world of instructing. Are you a CFI? How would you feel if a guy sets up shop on your airport and offers to give instruction for $15/hr? $10/hr? For FREE? How do you respond as your students, ever mindful of their training costs, leave to go next door to the new guy? Do you lower your rates to undercut the new guy and keep your students? Do you offer other incentives? What? THAT IS HOW THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM WORKS! How do you think ATP keeps their costs to the student down, thereby attracting more business (and taking business away from the "real" CFIs out there)? BY PAYING THEIR CFIS $6/HR!!!

If you don't want to work for ATP, you don't have to. Granted. Just like you don't have to work at GoJets if you don't want to. I for one would NOT go CFI for $6/hr. Just like I would not go fly at a 121 carrier for $15/hr. I'm sorry, my (and every other commercial pilot's) skills are worth more than that. Places like ATP lower the bar for everyone out there when they can pay their instructors $6/hr in the same way places like GoJets lower the bar for regional pilots out there when they have lousy pay and non-existent work rules.

I'm going to try one more time to be as clear as i can with this:
GoJets pilots undercut TSA pilots directly, and all of us in the regional airlines indirectly. In the same way, ATP instructors (and the guys who undercharge for their skills) undercut the other instructors at the airport they're based directly, and every other instructor who needs to charge more than $6/hr indirectly. Does that make sense? Are ATP instructors scabs? NO. But thats not where I am making the comparison. Are ATP instructors (and others who charge way less than what they are worth just so they can build time faster) lowering the bar for other instructors out there? YES.

I hope you are starting to see the logic because this is my last attempt at explaining it. If you aren't getting it now, you never will.

SharkyBN584

Keep in mind that you could log a 40 hour work week as an instructor. Now you'll be crediting half that on average. It doubled your pay...but it halved the amount of time you're getting paid for. Of course, if you were at a small FBO only doing a couple flights a week, this probably doesn't apply to you.

As far as CFI's complaining about being broke...get a job at a flight school attached to a university - there's more out there then UND and ERAU. You have a set student base and it usually includes a lot more multi than the local FBO. That's what I did and I was salaried clearing 44K a year. Plus, you get Xmas, Thanksgiving, Spring Break, etc. off If I could've made more then mid-40's working there, I would've retired at it quite happy with my career.

Quagmire

Love the new avatar