So many pilots perpetuate this myth. There are pilots sitting at home or in a crashpad right now getting paid - not an aircraft door in sight. There are pilots on a 2-day layover sitting in a hotel right now on a trip with pay determined by the trip-rig in their contract. They're going to get paid the same whether they fly that day or go to the hotel gym. How about the guys on sick leave or airport standby?

The bottom line is, almost every airline pilot has some kind of monthly guarantee. Some have contracts with a min pay per day or at least a trip guarantee. They are all going to get paid something, even if the door of the aircraft never closes.

Now if you want to say - "We have agreed to only get paid more than the minimum for that day, trip or month when the door is closed" - I'll agree with you.

The large hourly wages of the jobs everyone wants are there in part to account for the "down" time between flights, pre-flight, etc. If we got paid for every hour we were actually on duty, do you really think a WB Captain at a major airline would make $260+ an hour?

We're basically salaried employees that get a bonus each month based on how much we actually work. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many pilots out there that get paid nothing if for some reason they don't fly.

 

I would have to say no. Most of us have 4 year aviation degrees.

 

A 75 hour guarantee for 350 hours On Duty. And yes I think a wide body captain hauling in over $300,000 per flight should be getting paid over 500/hr. We have just accepted low pay as the norm.

 

I'm not arguing pay rates with you - I agree they should all be higher.

You claimed (as many do) that we only get paid when the door is shut or more accurately - when we are blocked out. That is not a true statement.

My other side point was that pilots have always had their pay based on flight hours (which are NEVER as high as duty hours). Even if a WB Captain made $500/hour, he'd still be getting paid for his flight hours rather than his duty hours. I doubt he would be complaining, though, do you? (well, maybe - he is a pilot after all )

To an airline, pilot pay is basically a fixed cost - give or take a little. Even if you felt they were paying you fairly, they have an average figure in mind per pilot. If you wanted your compensation based on 350 monthly duty hours, your hourly pay would not be as high (regardless of whether you felt the rate was fair or not). In the end, it's very likely your pay at the end of most months would be very similar regardless of how it was calculated.

 

Yeah I hear what you are saying but why not just call it what it is. Instead of 20/hr for a 75 hour guarantee, just say 4/hr for time on duty. It might do us more justice to have headlines read "Pilot's make less than half minimum wage" Plus the fact that we are not being paid overtime. They worked it out so that we are salaried but under the "hourly" category minus the overtime benefits.

 

I agree with you 100% I've been saying that for years. Pay us by duty hour so that we can compare fairly to other workforce. I'm sure the pay rates would go up even if it take hiking up the ticket prices.

 

I don't think it's a big secret that regional pilots are underpaid - however you want to do the math. The headlines are there and easy to find.
What Can New Pilots Make? Near Minimum Wage - WSJ.com

This just doesn't fly: Some airline pilots barely make living wage - NBC News

The public who reads these articles may be surprised and even sympathetic but they don't negotiate your contracts. They're the ones who have expected to fly across the country for the equivalent of bus fare for the last 30 years. They also know that no one put a gun to your head and made you take the job. It's doubtful the pay scale was a secret when you took it either.

It's not going to change unless you make it happen. Overtime is something you negotiate. Some of us have it in some form or another. Don't vote for your next contract unless it's there (along with proper pay rates). Vote no until it's right, strike over it, leave or deal with it. Your choice - sounds harsh but that's the way it is.

 

I agree. That's why I think we shouldn't be doing the negotiating ourselves. We have proven that we are more than poor at it. I have had apps in for years at other carriers and have heard nothing. I've watched fellow pilots (good pilots) leave the industry completely, and I'm contemplating the same. I voted no but it seems like everyone at the regional level is brainwashed, or just clawing at whatever they can get to hopefully someday move on. It's disgusting! I do like what Eagle just did though.

 

Agree 100%. I have yet to work for an airline where this isn't a huge problem.

Unfortunately, as long as these jobs are viewed as a stepping stone instead of a potential career location, it probably won't change.

 

You make quite a comparison here between widebody captains and what most are earning. I doubt anyone on this thread is wining about the pay at the majors, but rather the weak pay at regional levels.

Regradless of what you refer to as getting paid to sit or sleep in a hotel room, the pay is too low. How can wages well below what it takes to pay a modest mortgage and save for retirement be considered acceptable by any means.

Pilots commonly make the mistake of assuming that years of low pay after accummalating massive debt will be "made up for" later. Later may never come!! You could easily never get hired by a major or even get furloughed when you do finally get hired. Just look at those UA guys who had been on furlough for the better part of a decade.

I really think pilots shoud stop looking at themselves as "future widebody captains", and take a good hard look at their current situation and try to make improvements from there.

Look, I'm trying to say that a regional pilot has the same job and responsibility as a major, so why work for such low wages?