Are Pilots Idiots?
02-27-2014 | 12:25 PM
#22
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: 767 Captain
You make quite a comparison here between widebody captains and what most are earning. I doubt anyone on this thread is wining about the pay at the majors, but rather the weak pay at regional levels.
Regradless of what you refer to as getting paid to sit or sleep in a hotel room, the pay is too low. How can wages well below what it takes to pay a modest mortgage and save for retirement be considered acceptable by any means.
Pilots commonly make the mistake of assuming that years of low pay after accummalating massive debt will be "made up for" later. Later may never come!! You could easily never get hired by a major or even get furloughed when you do finally get hired. Just look at those UA guys who had been on furlough for the better part of a decade.
I really think pilots shoud stop looking at themselves as "future widebody captains", and take a good hard look at their current situation and try to make improvements from there.
Look, I'm trying to say that a regional pilot has the same job and responsibility as a major, so why work for such low wages?
Regradless of what you refer to as getting paid to sit or sleep in a hotel room, the pay is too low. How can wages well below what it takes to pay a modest mortgage and save for retirement be considered acceptable by any means.
Pilots commonly make the mistake of assuming that years of low pay after accummalating massive debt will be "made up for" later. Later may never come!! You could easily never get hired by a major or even get furloughed when you do finally get hired. Just look at those UA guys who had been on furlough for the better part of a decade.
I really think pilots shoud stop looking at themselves as "future widebody captains", and take a good hard look at their current situation and try to make improvements from there.
Look, I'm trying to say that a regional pilot has the same job and responsibility as a major, so why work for such low wages?
If I was your high school English teacher, you'd get an F for reading comprehension.
Did you actually read my entire first post in this thread or just skim it?I was merely commenting on HOW most of us are actually paid - not WHAT any of us are paid. So, there were no comparisons made between WB Captain pay at a major and regional pilot pay as you seem to be claiming.
I think if you read the posts I made here this afternoon, you'll see that I basically agree with just about everything you just posted (except the mischaracterization of my original post).
02-27-2014 | 12:36 PM
#23
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You make quite a comparison here between widebody captains and what most are earning. I doubt anyone on this thread is wining about the pay at the majors, but rather the weak pay at regional levels.
Regradless of what you refer to as getting paid to sit or sleep in a hotel room, the pay is too low. How can wages well below what it takes to pay a modest mortgage and save for retirement be considered acceptable by any means.
Pilots commonly make the mistake of assuming that years of low pay after accummalating massive debt will be "made up for" later. Later may never come!! You could easily never get hired by a major or even get furloughed when you do finally get hired. Just look at those UA guys who had been on furlough for the better part of a decade.
I really think pilots shoud stop looking at themselves as "future widebody captains", and take a good hard look at their current situation and try to make improvements from there.
Look, I'm trying to say that a regional pilot has the same job and responsibility as a major, so why work for such low wages?
Regradless of what you refer to as getting paid to sit or sleep in a hotel room, the pay is too low. How can wages well below what it takes to pay a modest mortgage and save for retirement be considered acceptable by any means.
Pilots commonly make the mistake of assuming that years of low pay after accummalating massive debt will be "made up for" later. Later may never come!! You could easily never get hired by a major or even get furloughed when you do finally get hired. Just look at those UA guys who had been on furlough for the better part of a decade.
I really think pilots shoud stop looking at themselves as "future widebody captains", and take a good hard look at their current situation and try to make improvements from there.
Look, I'm trying to say that a regional pilot has the same job and responsibility as a major, so why work for such low wages?
02-27-2014 | 01:00 PM
#24
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Hence the reason airline pilot collectively are idiots. They pay good money to worthless unions set-up to line their pockets at pilots expense and collude with managements and the NMB to maintain the present "system" where everyone makes out but the poor idiots whose cluelessly produced labor foots the bill.
02-27-2014 | 01:03 PM
#25
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Hence the reason airline pilot collectively are idiots. They pay good money to worthless unions set-up to line their pockets at pilots expense and collude with managements and the NMB to maintain the present "system" where everyone makes out but the poor idiots whose cluelessly produced labor foots the bill.
02-27-2014 | 01:05 PM
#26
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From: 7th green
Lots of logical problems in this thread.
First, the whole misconception that pilot unions don't provide professional negotiators. This is almost universally believed by people with no Union volunteer experience.
When a contract is being negotiated, ALPA provides all the professional help the Committee needs from legal advice to financial services that include evaluating an airline's books. The provide recommendations as to the tactics and what's acceptable.
At that point it is up the the PILOTS on the Negotiating Committee and the line PILOTS who ratify the contract to make their decisions. If you have a poor contract it isn't because you didn't have professional support, its because YOU made poor decisions.
Second: As long as there are young guys willing to sell their souls for flight time the regionals will never pay squat. If you're working for $20 an hour, you have no one but yourself to blame. There's a whole big world of aviation out there, but YOU are willing to prostitute yourself for substandard wages and then come on the Internet and whine about it.
Check the mirror. There's the guy you need to blame for your crappy job.
First, the whole misconception that pilot unions don't provide professional negotiators. This is almost universally believed by people with no Union volunteer experience.
When a contract is being negotiated, ALPA provides all the professional help the Committee needs from legal advice to financial services that include evaluating an airline's books. The provide recommendations as to the tactics and what's acceptable.
At that point it is up the the PILOTS on the Negotiating Committee and the line PILOTS who ratify the contract to make their decisions. If you have a poor contract it isn't because you didn't have professional support, its because YOU made poor decisions.
Second: As long as there are young guys willing to sell their souls for flight time the regionals will never pay squat. If you're working for $20 an hour, you have no one but yourself to blame. There's a whole big world of aviation out there, but YOU are willing to prostitute yourself for substandard wages and then come on the Internet and whine about it.
Check the mirror. There's the guy you need to blame for your crappy job.
02-27-2014 | 01:08 PM
#27
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Joined: Jul 2013
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First (in case you only read the first line) - I agree with you 100% that regional pilots are grossly underpaid.
If I was your high school English teacher, you'd get an F for reading comprehension. Did you actually read my entire first post in this thread or just skim it?
I was merely commenting on HOW most of us are actually paid - not WHAT any of us are paid. So, there were no comparisons made between WB Captain pay at a major and regional pilot pay as you seem to be claiming.
I think if you read the posts I made here this afternoon, you'll see that I basically agree with just about everything you just posted (except the mischaracterization of my original post).
If I was your high school English teacher, you'd get an F for reading comprehension.
Did you actually read my entire first post in this thread or just skim it?I was merely commenting on HOW most of us are actually paid - not WHAT any of us are paid. So, there were no comparisons made between WB Captain pay at a major and regional pilot pay as you seem to be claiming.
I think if you read the posts I made here this afternoon, you'll see that I basically agree with just about everything you just posted (except the mischaracterization of my original post).
I do agree with you. There are a few regionals with generous soft time built into their contracts. I think it would be advantageous to look into raising our wages that way first as a means of encouraging scheduling to use us as efficiently as possible.
02-27-2014 | 01:11 PM
#29
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Center seat, doing loops to music
Regional pilots are a textbook case of tragedy of the commons. The only way to insulate yourself from selfish behavior is to opt out of the industry. Otherwise you have to live with the water line the collective imposes on you.
You want to insulate yourself from the dilution of your labor value? You have to do something others cannot do or something others are not willing to do. Otherwise you live and die by the collective herd. It is what it is.
You want to insulate yourself from the dilution of your labor value? You have to do something others cannot do or something others are not willing to do. Otherwise you live and die by the collective herd. It is what it is.
02-27-2014 | 01:21 PM
#30
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: E170 CA
Exactly, the reality is that this is no longer a stepping stone for many since that ship has sailed long ago, which is part of the problem since they don't want to start over so they vote however they can to keep the company in business. Even if it is just scare tactics. We aren't flying B1900's anymore, we are flying planes with capacity close to the DC-9/B717 on mainline routes (JFK-ORD) for example. The whole "regional" name is a misconception in itself. I've flown in 4 time zones covering a distance over 4,000 NM at my "regional". If we are going to fly mainline routes then we should get mainline pay, and fight tooth and nail to get it!! In the end Major airlines will no longer see it economically viable to outsource and will take the flying back under contracts that are livable.
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