Expect it to get messy before it gets clean.
04-05-2014 | 11:06 AM
#21
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 69
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From: Ford E150 Captain
The only way this will move forwards and benefit the pilots is if those 10,000 pilots stick together. In the next weeks, ALPA and Teamsters need to come together and present a single contract framework. Basics of pay rates by aircraft and longevity, pay bumps, soft pay (cancellation, junior manning, DH pay) policies, medical costs and contract longevity. Since Skywest and a few others are due for negotiations soon they need to also present this as their starting point for negotiation. If these 13,000 pilots can work together and make a reasonable and defensible framework then all these no votes will truly mean something.
04-05-2014 | 11:21 AM
#22
He who lies first, wins!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 546
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From: back in the saddle with sores!
It's decent money. But if it ever comes to fruition that that gage of equipment comes to mainline Delta, the rate actually kind of sucks. here's the JB rate for the 190 as of 2014;
CA yr 1 131.10 yr 12 170.13
FO yr 1 49.56 yr 12 115.67
Here's UAL's rates effective for 2014
CA yr 1 120.64 yr 12 131.42
FO yr 1 66.10 yr 12 89.75
CA yr 1 131.10 yr 12 170.13
FO yr 1 49.56 yr 12 115.67
Here's UAL's rates effective for 2014
CA yr 1 120.64 yr 12 131.42
FO yr 1 66.10 yr 12 89.75
04-05-2014 | 11:27 AM
#23
He who lies first, wins!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
From: back in the saddle with sores!
Well you have many associations, but one that calls itself a Union. Then there are the non-Unionised carriers to bring to the table as well. If that is all done then I imagine the DOJ saying that we can't do this, because it will have created a monopoly. Then in comes the WTO and objects, but all the while Norwegian, EY and EK will have skirted the issue and undercut us all.
04-05-2014 | 11:40 AM
#24
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 77
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Okay, so roughly 66% of ALL regional pilots have told their (go between) management that they understand supply and demand economics and that they have a (newly) limited commodity. Its a start. Of course, the ONLY reason the regional airlines exist is to have that "B-scale" bottom of the totem pole group to keep labor costs in check for the balance of the industry. Basically, with the majors controlling/owning most everything but flight crews/ mechanics, Regional airlines are nothing more than staffing services. The cost of managing the regional airline is where the Flight Crew/mechanic salary parity goes. Delta pays a 4 year 112 seat airplane F/O $112 and hour while 76 seat regional F/0's pull in around $40/hr. 3/4 of the seats for about 1/3 of the pay.. and the EXACT SAME JOB SKILL SET.
Don't expect the majors to give up this massive bargaining chip without a fight. They have spent BILLIONS in the past to have this position at the table... it's gonna get interesting.
Don't expect the majors to give up this massive bargaining chip without a fight. They have spent BILLIONS in the past to have this position at the table... it's gonna get interesting.
04-05-2014 | 12:08 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 963
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From: What day is it?
It's all going according to the plan DAL and ALPA crafted. When regional pay rises to that level the advantage of outsourcing is gone. DAL (and the others, but especially DAL since they've positioned themselves to take advantage of it) will eliminate most RJ flying, taking the CRJ9s and E175s they own to be flown by mainline at the current pay rates in the current DAL PWA. Notice how ALPA is suddenly claiming there's no pilot shortage, it's a pay problem? How convenient.
The skeleton of the regionals will return to the 90s "commuter" airline days code sharing and at risk flying. Endeavor and Envoy will cease to exist. RAH will move toward UAL and AA until they follow suit. Silver and Great Lakes are well positioned for growth in picking up dropped CRJ routes to small cities. SkyWest and its subsidiaries will most likely use their remaining CRJ200s and 700s for at risk flying and use their large airplanes to start a stand alone airline.
It's all going according to the plan...
The skeleton of the regionals will return to the 90s "commuter" airline days code sharing and at risk flying. Endeavor and Envoy will cease to exist. RAH will move toward UAL and AA until they follow suit. Silver and Great Lakes are well positioned for growth in picking up dropped CRJ routes to small cities. SkyWest and its subsidiaries will most likely use their remaining CRJ200s and 700s for at risk flying and use their large airplanes to start a stand alone airline.
It's all going according to the plan...
04-05-2014 | 01:41 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,282
Likes: 102
True, sorry, don't have the DAL scale handy for the 195, can you post it? But here's the UAL one for 2014;
CA yr 1 141.81 yr 12 154.48
FO yr 1 66.10 FO yr 12 105.51
Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT flaming you nor peeing in your cheerios. But in the mantra that some (NOT saying you) take of "we're a legacy airline!!!!!! we've got the BEST of everything!!!!!!! The best rates, the best retirement, EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!", the legacies that have CR9/EMB190/195, or whatever else are going to have to step up next round. At least for the guys that like to brag about EVERYTHING anyway.
And I know, I know....... If/when the legacies DO see those aircraft show up, they'll be "junior, the pilot won't be on them very long......." Which is always a good thing. But then ask a UAL narrow body FO that was luck enough to NOT be furloughed and barely clinging on to a narrow body seat. With a crappy pay scale, a crappy monthly guaranty, crappy work rules, whatever.......
Last edited by John Carr; 04-05-2014 at 01:54 PM.
04-05-2014 | 03:31 PM
#28
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
The only way this will move forwards and benefit the pilots is if those 10,000 pilots stick together. In the next weeks, ALPA and Teamsters need to come together and present a single contract framework. Basics of pay rates by aircraft and longevity, pay bumps, soft pay (cancellation, junior manning, DH pay) policies, medical costs and contract longevity. Since Skywest and a few others are due for negotiations soon they need to also present this as their starting point for negotiation. If these 13,000 pilots can work together and make a reasonable and defensible framework then all these no votes will truly mean something.
Thats a good idea, I wonder if it could really happen?
04-05-2014 | 04:16 PM
#29
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
The only way this will move forwards and benefit the pilots is if those 10,000 pilots stick together. In the next weeks, ALPA and Teamsters need to come together and present a single contract framework. Basics of pay rates by aircraft and longevity, pay bumps, soft pay (cancellation, junior manning, DH pay) policies, medical costs and contract longevity. Since Skywest and a few others are due for negotiations soon they need to also present this as their starting point for negotiation. If these 13,000 pilots can work together and make a reasonable and defensible framework then all these no votes will truly mean something.
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