Beyond Hourly Payscales and Guarantees
12-24-2006, 11:42 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by Pilotpip
JetJock,
Thanks for the info! While the basics of airline pay are relatively easy, it gets very fuzzy very fast. Your posts on this thread have been great for somebody who's trying to go to Skywest in the next year like I am. It's nice to see some useful stuff on here instead of the pis$$ing contests we've seen this deteriorate into recently.
How is flying the 120 as opposed to the CRJ? Routes? You said you fly more, does that mean more legs per day since they're shorter or just more hours in general? Thanks again for the valuable info.
Thanks for the info! While the basics of airline pay are relatively easy, it gets very fuzzy very fast. Your posts on this thread have been great for somebody who's trying to go to Skywest in the next year like I am. It's nice to see some useful stuff on here instead of the pis$$ing contests we've seen this deteriorate into recently.
How is flying the 120 as opposed to the CRJ? Routes? You said you fly more, does that mean more legs per day since they're shorter or just more hours in general? Thanks again for the valuable info.
On the jet you’ll have some days where you do a lot of legs but nothing like the Bro. Our average flight is probably about 50 minutes. We only have one that is close to 2 hours and that’s from SFO to RDM (Redmond, Or.). The shortest is LAX to SNA (Orange Co) and it’s about a 6 minute flight. ONT to LAX is fun, the clearance is usually: after TO turn left to 210 and join the Loc of 24R. It’s about 35 miles and about 9 minutes of flight time. You never get higher than 3000 ft.
Last edited by JetJock16; 12-24-2006 at 07:40 PM.
12-24-2006, 11:58 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer
Whats it like flying the EMB? As 121 time does it count for the LCCs, majors/legacy carriers?
-LAFF
-LAFF
The bottom line is the Bro is commuter class (Flight Attendant and Lavatory), multi-turbine 121 time aircarft. I have never heard of a Bro pilot not getting a job because he didn't have any Turbofan time.
“As long as you're building Multi-Turbine PIC 121 time your golden when it comes to the majors, regardless of whether it's Turbofan or Turboprop”; this comment comes strait from my father (retired Braniff / American CA) and uncle (hiring CA at SWA). After all, we all have proven by now that we can fly anything under the sun, it just comes down to the 121 PIC experience.
Just get it and move on!
Merry X-Mas.
Last edited by JetJock16; 12-24-2006 at 07:47 PM.
12-27-2006, 06:20 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB 170/175 F.O.
Posts: 549
For those at AWAC, what is the deal with the long call? Is there a way you can bid a whole month of long call reserve? How senior would one have to be to do that? Can one get lines with 1-2 day trips as opposed to 3-4 days?
12-27-2006, 10:18 AM
#34
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by JetJock16
Well, the only thing you’re guaranteed is guarantee (SKW CRJ 75, EMB 80). But keep in mind that these numbers are actually the minimum hours that a line will be created for. If you get an 80 hour line and then drop a tip that takes you to 71 then you’ll only get paid the 71. At SKW there is a minimum number of hours you must work, otherwise you drop below full time and loose your benefits, I don't have time to look it up but I do know that iit is well below the guarantee. There is a scenario where you can work less than the minimum need for benefits and still retain them. If you are displaced for an IOE trip or the company pulls you off your trip for some other reason, then at SKW you get paid for the full trip and it counts as time worked.
As far as the 100 hrs, that's just how it works out for my seniority at SKW. On the EMB you’ll pull a few more hours than on the jet. Mainly because on the jet you’re limited to 1000 hours a year on the EMB we’re 1200 hours. EMB pilots are building 121 flight time under 135 hour’s regs because we only have 30 passengers. This allows us to fly a little more, however it doesn’t mean that we have less days off. They just build a few more hours into your regular trip. I average 14-17 days off on the EMB and still pull about 100 hours of pay, usually 4-4 day trips or 3-4 days trips and 1-3 day. The average four day trip I bid ends up paying around 25-26 hours and the three day end around 20-21. If you are junior, to get 100 hours, your will probably get about 12-14 days off per month depending on how JR you are. On the jet you will probably average a pay credit of about 88-95 hours per month. Slightly lower than the EMB so your pay will be less the first year but once you start making 2 year pay ($35 hr) your pay check won’t be so bad. 2 year pay on the EMB is $27 an hour but the extra 7-10 hours helps make up some of the difference. The main thing about 2nd year on the EMB is upgrade. You can upgrade once you get 2500TT with 1000 121 crew and 2 year EMB CA pay is $46 hr. So the route I have chosen to increase my earning potential is EMB FO year 1, EMB CA year 2-3 and then transition to the jet in year 3 or 4. This maximizes my earnings.
Keep in mind that all the above numbers are based upon you being a line holder. You will sit reserve longer on the jet than the EMB. Usually averages about 1-2 months reserve on the EMB and 6 or so on the jet. Take in mind that we are hiring like mad because of our growth so these numbers can drop to almost no reserve time. If you are reserve it is a totally different story. If reserve, you will get your guarantee, even if you don’t fly it. BUT, in order to break guarantee you mush BLOCK (fly) 75+ hours. Credit time doesn’t count toward the 75 hour guarantee. BUT, once you block 75+ hours they go back and recalculate your credit back into you pay so usually if you BLOCKED 76 hours your credit will usually take you to 82-85 hours. Just by getting that 1 hour you make 10. The trick on reserve and this only works if you live at your base; is to fly as little as possible but pick up trips on your days off. See, if you can fly on your days off and it doesn’t impede on your duty/time regs then that pay, although it won't count toward your 75 hours because they didn’t schedule you, gets added to (in addition to) the 75 hour guarantee. No, it goes right on top. SO, if you only fly 35 hours scheduled and you pick up another 15 hours on your days off for a total of 50 hours, then you will be paid 90 hours (75+15=90). Not a bad trick and not that hard to do. SKW EMB pairings seem to have a lot of local trips that pay 3.45 and with a block of 2 hours so these trips are easy to pick up and short enough to not impose on anything else.
Hope I helped and let me know if you need anymore info. I pounded this out quickly so my apologies for any errors.
Merry X-Mas to ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As far as the 100 hrs, that's just how it works out for my seniority at SKW. On the EMB you’ll pull a few more hours than on the jet. Mainly because on the jet you’re limited to 1000 hours a year on the EMB we’re 1200 hours. EMB pilots are building 121 flight time under 135 hour’s regs because we only have 30 passengers. This allows us to fly a little more, however it doesn’t mean that we have less days off. They just build a few more hours into your regular trip. I average 14-17 days off on the EMB and still pull about 100 hours of pay, usually 4-4 day trips or 3-4 days trips and 1-3 day. The average four day trip I bid ends up paying around 25-26 hours and the three day end around 20-21. If you are junior, to get 100 hours, your will probably get about 12-14 days off per month depending on how JR you are. On the jet you will probably average a pay credit of about 88-95 hours per month. Slightly lower than the EMB so your pay will be less the first year but once you start making 2 year pay ($35 hr) your pay check won’t be so bad. 2 year pay on the EMB is $27 an hour but the extra 7-10 hours helps make up some of the difference. The main thing about 2nd year on the EMB is upgrade. You can upgrade once you get 2500TT with 1000 121 crew and 2 year EMB CA pay is $46 hr. So the route I have chosen to increase my earning potential is EMB FO year 1, EMB CA year 2-3 and then transition to the jet in year 3 or 4. This maximizes my earnings.
Keep in mind that all the above numbers are based upon you being a line holder. You will sit reserve longer on the jet than the EMB. Usually averages about 1-2 months reserve on the EMB and 6 or so on the jet. Take in mind that we are hiring like mad because of our growth so these numbers can drop to almost no reserve time. If you are reserve it is a totally different story. If reserve, you will get your guarantee, even if you don’t fly it. BUT, in order to break guarantee you mush BLOCK (fly) 75+ hours. Credit time doesn’t count toward the 75 hour guarantee. BUT, once you block 75+ hours they go back and recalculate your credit back into you pay so usually if you BLOCKED 76 hours your credit will usually take you to 82-85 hours. Just by getting that 1 hour you make 10. The trick on reserve and this only works if you live at your base; is to fly as little as possible but pick up trips on your days off. See, if you can fly on your days off and it doesn’t impede on your duty/time regs then that pay, although it won't count toward your 75 hours because they didn’t schedule you, gets added to (in addition to) the 75 hour guarantee. No, it goes right on top. SO, if you only fly 35 hours scheduled and you pick up another 15 hours on your days off for a total of 50 hours, then you will be paid 90 hours (75+15=90). Not a bad trick and not that hard to do. SKW EMB pairings seem to have a lot of local trips that pay 3.45 and with a block of 2 hours so these trips are easy to pick up and short enough to not impose on anything else.
Hope I helped and let me know if you need anymore info. I pounded this out quickly so my apologies for any errors.
Merry X-Mas to ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude that is one of the best post I've ever read. Thank you for taking the time to put it all down.
12-27-2006, 10:39 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by iflyjets4food
For those at AWAC, what is the deal with the long call? Is there a way you can bid a whole month of long call reserve? How senior would one have to be to do that? Can one get lines with 1-2 day trips as opposed to 3-4 days?
12-28-2006, 06:12 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by iflyjets4food
So what do normal trips look like at AWAC? Are most of the trips 4 days or can you get shorter 1-2 day trips?
I personally wouldn't leave another company now to come to AWAC. If you are a CFI, then yes, but otherwise you can have your pick of the skywests, republics, etc. out there. There probably won't be any growth and the attrition hasn't picked up even with the Midwest announcement. In short, it'll be a career killer for those unlucky enough to be FO's now. If you live in one of their domiciles, life can be nice though.
Also, the pay ain't bad, even for a junior FO. Total compensation for Dec/Jan will be $7,600 or so, that's about $45k/yr as a second year FO. If you don't care too much about money, bid relief and get long call lines. Min guarantee second year is around $32k, and your work|pay ratio is out of this world (because LC FO's don't work very much, maybe 1 trip a month).
12-28-2006, 08:05 AM
#38
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer
Whats it like flying the EMB? As 121 time does it count for the LCCs, majors/legacy carriers?
-LAFF
-LAFF
Historically, turbo-prop PIC at a commuter airline was golden for getting a major job. This is still very much the case at some airlines (SWA and CAL come to mind), but the majors are hiring you to fly jets, often with glass cockpits, and they are starting to realize that they can achieve a higher pass rate in initial training with glass-experienced pilots. This is a new development because ten years ago we didn't have hords of RJ's, so prop-pilots where the only game in town.
Not to annoy prop-pilots here, but transition from prop to jet is pretty busy the first time around. I am sure it would be the same going the other way on the rare occasions that it happens, but the majors fly jets so they are somewhat more interested in that experience.
I would consider glass/jet to be resume padders, get the turbine PIC first then worry about glass/jet. If you know someone, it won't matter but if you are applying off the street you need every edge you can get. JetBlue actually requires jet time, if you wanted to work there for some reason.
12-28-2006, 09:02 AM
#39
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by iflyjets4food
So what do normal trips look like at AWAC?
LC rocks...My first month off reserve I had a pure LC line. I worked 10 total days and credited 95 hours of pay. Talk about being friggin' spoiled...
Fosters, you sound pretty pessimistic. Its been one week and its over the holidays, that's why attrition hasn't spiked. Come January we'll know what the real deal is. Its definately not sunshine & flowers here at AWAC, but we're not withering on the vine either (at least not yet). Comair was a rapid growth & upgrade darling for a while, then Pinnacle, then RAH, now Skywest. Who is gonna be next? That's the 1000 PIC question.
12-28-2006, 11:00 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Fosters, you sound pretty pessimistic. Its been one week and its over the holidays, that's why attrition hasn't spiked. Come January we'll know what the real deal is. Its definately not sunshine & flowers here at AWAC, but we're not withering on the vine either (at least not yet). Comair was a rapid growth & upgrade darling for a while, then Pinnacle, then RAH, now Skywest. Who is gonna be next? That's the 1000 PIC question.
