No RJ pilot has ever 'taken' a mainline route.

Mainline gave up scope so mainline could "Get theirs".

 

so what ive learned from this is, that its the responsibility of every pilot that's a member of a union, that when he votes he should always think of whats best for every other pilot, before he follows his heart and does what he feels is right for him. so the strength of my airline isnt with me or my union, it rests on all the other pilots and there union ?? wow i did not know this..... oh ya and for the dude bragging about how many pilots he refuses on his plane..... spouting off being a internet tough guy while hiding behind a fake identity must make your dad proud lolo definitely not ex marine or army, probably TSA or coast guard if i offended and TSA or CG vets i do apologize

 

 

lol didn't Joseph Stalin say that lol no your right it was Spock !

 

I wish I had the time to properly respond to your post. I'm going to respond but I'm not going to do your post justice so I apologize.

This idea of the regionals need to clear profit on their own fails by your very arguments about the fact that we don't sell our own tickets. The simple fact is it is a lie for management right now to be saying that they need cost-cutting at the regionals. They don't need it, they want it. Big difference. The fact is the airline needs to make a profit on the tickets they sell from departure station to ultimate arrival station. If that includes regionals then so be it. But they don't need to make money on every single leg. If they are making $200 on a mainline leg and losing five dollars on the regional leg is still made $195.

Eagle negotiated at the direction of their pilots. They obtained the best deal they could from management and the eagle pilots voted it down. If you are asserting that the eagle union leadership should have been selling a deal to the pilots that they didn't want then you're suggesting misrepresentation by union officers. No one but management bears blame for negotiating from a standpoint of saying they need something they don't.

All that said, PSA knew exactly what they were getting themselves into, their union leadership knew exactly what was being asked of them and what was being promised to them. Their deal for the 900s was clearly a concessionary deal in order to take aircraft from eagle. Whether or not that was the reality of the situation is a separate debate. But the fact is they were voting yes to take concessions to take aircraft from Eagle.

People can try to apologize for it all they like on here. The simple fact is the vote was to knowingly take eagle airplanes.

 

Can you stop making stuff up? How would voting in additional 900s and long term security for pay caps and higher insurance cost have ANYTHING to do with transferring of Eagle's 700s? We are already a 700 operator with competitive rates. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to transfer the 700s and not have to buy shiny 900s for PSA? The only reason AA is transferring the 700s is to punish Eagle. Yea it might save AA few pennies by combining the fleet type but even at a loss, AA would transfer your planes to someone else just to prove a point. In other words, they weren't bluffing. Why would anyone at PSA apologize for something they had no control over?

 

I will apologize to the next PSA pilot that ask for my jumpseat.

 

John, it's business. PSA offeres the same product for a lower cost. It's managements obligation to the shareholders to seek cost efficiencies. At one time eagle was a cost efficiency that did the same thing to mainline. Should everyone hold the line and return flying to mainline? In a perfect world.. yes. That doesn't exist though. I see eagle guys/gals doing the right thing standing strong. I also see PSA pilots suceeding for doing what works for them. Who's right? That's up to you and them. Don't ever think mainline is going to lose 5 dollars on a regional flight to pay you a fair wage. They would (and have) tossed our mainline butts to the street to save a buck. Someone posted elsewhere it's 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react.

 

John,

You are missing the point. The regionals don't get that ticket price increase or decrease. They are paid a fee for departure. Very little risk and very high reward if the airline has low cost. The regionals are faced with a diminishing demand for their services, surplus aircraft and believe it or not surplus crews when all the shaking out takes place. The cost associated with operating a 50 seat jet in the FFD scheme only works with relatively new labor.

I do believe your negotiating committee failed the eagle pilots. You say they negotiated what the pilots wanted. The negotiating committee needs to get the best deal possible and be the communicator of the reason why the deal they got was the best. If all the eagle pilots wanted a pony and a chaufered Lexus to drive them to and for work would they be the goal of the negotiating team? Setting realistic expectations are key to the negotiations. Even ALPA national has been sending out notices to the regionals about negotiation expectations since last winter. Just look at the post 9-11 Concessionary contracts at the legacy carriers. Not one pilot wanted to take concessions but the majority understood the landscape and situation that dictated those contracts. Overall airframe numbers at regionals are shrinking. That is a less than optimal time to be negotiating increases. Awareness of what is attainable, setting pilot expectations to those things that are attainable is what your negotiations team and MEC should have been doing. Rattling your saber is only good if you are in the power position to which eagle was not.

For what I have read you are no longer at eagle and suffer no consequences. I am sure you need this story to be spun to make your time remaining in the industry one where you can cast blame but take no responsibility. And before you use the "you guys at the majors gave up scope" argument I was opposed to scope relief and felt we should have operated the RJ's in house. I was only one vote.

 

How can you say that with a straight face? Eagle was offered a deal for additional large RJs which their MEC flatly rejected. Another deal was presented to their pilot group which they flatly rejected. At that point airframes in question were not Eagles to claim. You passesd on the deal, you passed on the airframes. PSA didn't like what was offered them either but knew what was about to happen to Eagle and what would happen to them if they to rejected the offer. I wish I could find a copy of the deal we were given in the road shows. It clearly states "A MINIMUM OF 30 BOMBADIER 900 NEX GEN AIRCRAFT". Nowhere is anything mentioned about 700s currently on Eagle property. We didn't ask for them, we weren't asked about them. The 700 transfer is all on AAG.