9E's Retention Bonus - A Mirage in the Desert
11-22-2014, 10:16 AM
#62
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: CRJ - Hell Hole
Posts: 236
There is a reason that these retention bonuses are in multiple segments. I suspect that the first one is planned, and the second one is a plan B just incase they can't disable Endeavor on time. I think it's pretty obvious that by this time next year, Endeavor will be completely broken apart, and all the CRJ-900's will be flying for other regionals.
Endeavor has too many things wrong with it to stay afloat. Airlines have lifespans, and Endeavor has stage 4 cancer.
Endeavor has too many things wrong with it to stay afloat. Airlines have lifespans, and Endeavor has stage 4 cancer.
11-22-2014, 12:00 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CRJ 900
Posts: 131
You guys are so funny! If you think that a 121 pilot at a major or a regional has any different job then you are just lying to yourself. If your airline has a good training program, and a good recurrent program than an FO can easily do the same Job. A regional pilot at 9E, SKW, Mesa, ECT is performing the same function in a CRJ 900 as he does in a 737 or and MD80. We have all been in each others jump seats and it is no secret what the job entails. There are great pilots, good pilots, and bad pilots at every airline. Have confidence in your training program, and your check airmen. If you don't think your company is capable of hiring bright capable pilots, than maybe it is not as great of a place to be as you think. Don't forget, the regionals provide 50% of the domestic lift in this country, and in my years as a regional FO, I was yet to see a mainline pilot too worried about the capabilities of the Capt and FO not to get on to commute or travel with his family for vacation. Stop fighting each other, and start figuring out a way to work together to make more money and have a better QOL. Get your pensions back, get your days off back. Do it before people realize that they can accomplish the same goals with foreign pilots or drones.
11-22-2014, 12:28 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MSP CA
Posts: 353
In ErDudes theory, a PSA Captain, who recently upgraded after 6 months on property will be more qualified than our 7+ year FOs? Really? There is a reason why PSA is giving our FOs a 10 minute phone interview and offering them a class, they need Captains, not first officers!!! They understand the value of years and years of 121 flying, regardless of the seat position.
11-22-2014, 12:45 PM
#65
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Jumpseat
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Erdude32
Wow, where to begin. First off I DO want all Regional Pilots to have a shot at a Major, after they've been in command that is. I don't understand why you think I'm being elitist by wanting the most qualified candidates interviewing for mainline. You do NOT do the same job as an FO, you are delusional if you think you do. Flying the jet is the easiest thing you'll ever do as a Captain. As an FO for all intents and purposes you are along for the ride. The Captain signs for the jet, the buck stops with him in the decision making process. Go, no go, fuel/Mel issues., unruly passengers, medical emergencies, de-icing decisions, setting the tone in the cockpit and CRM not with just the FO who might be 1 day off of OE or a 7 year Gen X'er with an entitlement attitude that you're sitting in his seat., FA's, gate agents and untold other responsibilities that are all on the CAPTAINS shoulders and NOT the FO.
I for one don't want an RJ FO getting hired next year with Zero TPIC and 5 years from now his first command is at mainline in a MD88 in LGA with a newhire FO in a snowstorm with 3-4 Mel's.
No sir, wait your turn. Upgrade and get some REAL experience then get in line for a job. No where'd I say you weren't worthy, I said you're not experienced enough. I'd love to see all the flying brough in house and flown by mainline Pilots who've been properly vetted and qualified. Right now that includes TPIC. Don't like it? Apply elsewhere.
I for one don't want an RJ FO getting hired next year with Zero TPIC and 5 years from now his first command is at mainline in a MD88 in LGA with a newhire FO in a snowstorm with 3-4 Mel's.
No sir, wait your turn. Upgrade and get some REAL experience then get in line for a job. No where'd I say you weren't worthy, I said you're not experienced enough. I'd love to see all the flying brough in house and flown by mainline Pilots who've been properly vetted and qualified. Right now that includes TPIC. Don't like it? Apply elsewhere.
11-22-2014, 12:55 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by BE24pilot
You guys are so funny! If you think that a 121 pilot at a major or a regional has any different job then you are just lying to yourself. If your airline has a good training program, and a good recurrent program than an FO can easily do the same Job. A regional pilot at 9E, SKW, Mesa, ECT is performing the same function in a CRJ 900 as he does in a 737 or and MD80. We have all been in each others jump seats and it is no secret what the job entails. There are great pilots, good pilots, and bad pilots at every airline. Have confidence in your training program, and your check airmen. If you don't think your company is capable of hiring bright capable pilots, than maybe it is not as great of a place to be as you think. Don't forget, the regionals provide 50% of the domestic lift in this country, and in my years as a regional FO, I was yet to see a mainline pilot too worried about the capabilities of the Capt and FO not to get on to commute or travel with his family for vacation. Stop fighting each other, and start figuring out a way to work together to make more money and have a better QOL. Get your pensions back, get your days off back. Do it before people realize that they can accomplish the same goals with foreign pilots or drones.
I get to evaluate both "regional" and "major" airlines crews, but to the FAA, they are all the same, all "121s". They are more alike than different and for the most part, any decent size "regional" operates just like a "major", in terms of procedures and flying. There's nothing different when we step onto a 737 vs. a CRJ, nor should there be.
I'm not denying that there might be a pilot with less experience in the CRJ cockpit, or that a smaller regional airline with less resources and simpler equipment may not be "exactly" the same, but by and large what I described in the first paragraph is the way things are and as we move forward and data collection and oversight continue to become more efficient, they will only move closer to the same level.
11-22-2014, 01:12 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,672
Originally Posted by Mesabah
No one, in 121 has paid their dues more than a regional FO that has been stuck in the right seat for 7+ years.
Although being an RJ FO sucks, I KNOW. 8 years worth. Plus a furlough/shutdown and a few CA displacements thrown in.
However, I consider myself LUCKY compared to a once/twice furloughed legacy pilot. Ya know, the ones that came up in the late 80's/90's, flew crappy turboprops 8-10 legs a day for abysmal/non-existent work rules and low pay. Only to get hired at the legacy, think they've finally made it to the show, only to take a furlough (or two) in the dark decade.
AGAIN, I KNOW, the prolonged FO tenure sucks. Imagine how much WORSE the example I outlined above had it? Sorry, I'm of the belief those guys have "paid their dues" on a level the whiney/entitled late 20's/early 30's 7 year FO CAN'T EVEN GRASP.
Perspective is EVERYTHING.
And before you retort, READ THE FIRST PART AGAIN. I KNOW, I sat FO 8 years. Combined with your post only reference a SPECIFIC demographic of "121".
11-22-2014, 01:22 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by Erdude32
Wow, where to begin. First off I DO want all Regional Pilots to have a shot at a Major, after they've been in command that is. I don't understand why you think I'm being elitist by wanting the most qualified candidates interviewing for mainline. You do NOT do the same job as an FO, you are delusional if you think you do. Flying the jet is the easiest thing you'll ever do as a Captain. As an FO for all intents and purposes you are along for the ride. The Captain signs for the jet, the buck stops with him in the decision making process. Go, no go, fuel/Mel issues., unruly passengers, medical emergencies, de-icing decisions, setting the tone in the cockpit and CRM not with just the FO who might be 1 day off of OE or a 7 year Gen X'er with an entitlement attitude that you're sitting in his seat., FA's, gate agents and untold other responsibilities that are all on the CAPTAINS shoulders and NOT the FO.
I for one don't want an RJ FO getting hired next year with Zero TPIC and 5 years from now his first command is at mainline in a MD88 in LGA with a newhire FO in a snowstorm with 3-4 Mel's.
No sir, wait your turn. Upgrade and get some REAL experience then get in line for a job. No where'd I say you weren't worthy, I said you're not experienced enough. I'd love to see all the flying brough in house and flown by mainline Pilots who've been properly vetted and qualified. Right now that includes TPIC. Don't like it? Apply elsewhere.
I for one don't want an RJ FO getting hired next year with Zero TPIC and 5 years from now his first command is at mainline in a MD88 in LGA with a newhire FO in a snowstorm with 3-4 Mel's.
No sir, wait your turn. Upgrade and get some REAL experience then get in line for a job. No where'd I say you weren't worthy, I said you're not experienced enough. I'd love to see all the flying brough in house and flown by mainline Pilots who've been properly vetted and qualified. Right now that includes TPIC. Don't like it? Apply elsewhere.
11-22-2014, 01:31 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Erdude32, using your logic, how do you upgrade a regional FO to regional captain....After all they haven't ever been 121 PIC, so it must be dangerous to have them flying as captain in a 90 seat airplane with "Delta/United/American" painted on the side. What say you to that?
11-22-2014, 04:48 PM
#70
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by John Carr
However, I consider myself LUCKY compared to a once/twice furloughed legacy pilot. Ya know, the ones that came up in the late 80's/90's, flew crappy turboprops 8-10 legs a day for abysmal/non-existent work rules and low pay. Only to get hired at the legacy, think they've finally made it to the show, only to take a furlough (or two) in the dark decade.
DL has hired a handful of FOs this round, but it's been very few and far between. It's harder to score high enough in the interview without TPIC. They will have to prep and try even harder in the interview- the problem is that many of the questions in the interview surround command decision situations.
I believe this retention bonus and allowing the SSP to extend to FOs is bell ringing that this is the next phase to the end.
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