[QUOTE=SevereClear1;1827289]The ground instructors at AWAC were great, my cpt instructor was meh, and my sim instructor was pretty crazy(and didn't necessarily follow the book), although I know for a fact that he left. In my class 5 needed extra sim out of seven


Its sounding like the ratio of those who get through training successfully and online is going down.

Can happen to anyone, but I dont want to go into a training program where the odds are against you before you even start, if what I'm hearing is even partly true.

It would seem that the company is content with a low number of trainees getting though in the allotted sessions. Some are asked back, some are not. Is this done on purpose? Those having issues in training but getting online probably arent leaving AWACs anytime soon with their record dinged.

One recent trainee told me they used a cardboard CPT, and you had trainees getting in the sim without really knowing where switches were or how they worked. He said there really didnt seem to be a syllabus, and everything was just being "winged".

AWACs has some advantages for me, but not if I've got a one in twelve chance of getting online without a record of training difficulties.

 

As long as you don't fail a checkride, it wont be on PRIA. If you go to STL for sim, it will be paper CPT. I think other places have the touch screen CPT. And yes, people have somehow made it to full motion sim without knowing where all the buttons are, how to program the FMS or flows and actually passed checkride and flying the line!! There is something that looks like a "syllabus" but no one follows it. If the stars align, you wont even get to do emergency descent or manual gear extension and get signed off for checkride. So if you think you wont pass, it's your job to walk away.

I have seen them pairing a CFI who knew nothing about the CRJ with someone who had few thousand hours in CRJ and sent them to STL with paper CPT rather than someplace with touch screen. Of course the CFI was behind because the paper CPT isn't as interactive of a training tool as the screens. When you touch a button, the paper isn't going to tell you what light turns on and what msg will pop up. You sit in front of the paper doing callout at your pace, rather than at the plane's pace. And of course, once in sim, they went at the CRJ guy's pace and leave the CFI behind. The CFI failed checkride and was asked to leave. I could smell a set up from a mile away.

 

Has it always been that way at AWAC? Recent new hires not up to the level, or issues on the training side?

 

I thought my initial training 9 years ago was fantastic...paper tiger (gasp!) and all.

Obviously, things have likely changed since them.

Long breaks in the training process, however, are VERY tough when you are trying to learn a new airframe...especially if it is your first exposure to 121 and/or turbine operations.

While an individual needs to commit themselves and utilize time off wisely, long breaks are a recipe for training issues even with experienced candidates.

 

9 years ago, you guys got SIC type not PIC type, didnt have CATII/ RNAV, didnt have all these comair people teaching the wrong thing. I bet all your class had paper tigar as suppose to some used the screen and some used the paper

 

I don't think the training has changed, just the quality of the applicant. When I'm down in CLT doing CQT I still see the same guys running around there. Paul, Dirk, Grant, Clint, etc. etc.

We had the paper tiger too. It was great, you had to really know the switch position. "10th stage bleeds...out an off". You had to come into it day one knowing the preflight chapter pretty much cold. There was ZERO spoon feeding.

No fancy touch screen needed, just good old fashioned study sessions.

I still keep in contact with a couple people there in the training department. They are smart, knowledgeable people who can get the motivated applicant through without issue. Key word, motivated.

When I came to mainline we have touch screens as well, guess what, all of the commuter guys got together and taped our cockpit posters on the wall and ran the flows the exact same way. We had study sessions just like back in the commuter days, peppering each other with questions.

The CRJ is a surprisingly simple aircraft to fly.

In my pad recently there was an AWAC new hire. 5 trips of OE and still not finished. They finally cut him. I can't imagine having to give people 100 hours of OE! That is very generous of the company IMO.

Some guys aren't cut out for this job. I completely disagree with the ATP in terms of increasing the quality of the applicant, it has not done that and in fact might be doing the opposite.

The top highest time, highest experienced guys in my class were cut, guys who had been flying 121 prior to coming to AWAC. The youngest, lowest time guys all made it through with zero extra sessions or OE.

 

Of course even with screen, u still have to study at hotels with paper poster. But in general, the screens are much better training tool. The quality if applicant could be the same as before, namely CFI, its just that now they have 1500h rather than 900h.

If there was no spoon feeding, then why did i see them spoon feeding so many people?

Did you ask him why he needed 5 ioe trips? What was the area he supposedly struggle with? Or you just assume that it was him who couldnt hack it? Could it be more than half of his trip was canceled so he needed another trip? Could it be that each time he got a different instructor and each was telling him different things?

As far as knowledgeable, I don't know as I haven't see it. One guy tried to "explain" to me which hydraulic pumps I would lose if I lose an engine and he got it mixed up! I'm not surprised as he was talking so fast that I'm not sure if he knew what was coming out of his mouth. And then this same guy wanted us to do CATII and shortly afterward failed my autopilot. I don't know if he wanted to test my knowledge of the SOP or he lacked knowledge of the SOP that autopilot is required for CATII

 

Some people just can't fly the airplane. I've heard story after story about how scary some of the new fo's are. Back when I was hired I had half my 1st week canceled, so ended up with 3 trips. I felt very comfortable by the 3rd trip. If you can't figure this out after a 100 hours then you probably never will.

 

The kind of story I heard was not slowing to 250kt before descending past 10k. doesn't sound that scary to me. Need some situation awareness but nothing nobody cannot work with.

I have flown with capts who let the upwind wing lift up on xwind landings. That got to be more scary!

 

The things that are getting people let go are the type where they let go of the controls at 50ft and state "I can't do this".