Then they are probably just nervous (first jet, 50 people in the back etc..) Its the trainer's job to build their confidence similar to a CFI building a student pilot's confidence. This isn't the sim anymore, anyone with any humility would be nervous!

 

Be that as it may, passengers deserve much better than a pilot that says "Jesus take the wheel"...

 

Being nervous is one thing, letting go with both hands seconds before smacking the ground shows extreme poor decision making that is dangerous enough to cause a crash. A normal pilot when they realize they can't handle it initiate a go around.

 

A trainer will probably not let a GA happen on a stablized approach because it wastes fuel (aka money)! Heck, they dont even let a GA happen even on an unstablized approach (reference PVD)!! They can try talking them down with one hand guarding the yoke. Same CFI techniques we all used before. Why can't they apply the same technique here?

 

Your assumptions are wrong for starters. More importantly I believe the training department is focused on safety first and foremost. If it were about money all these sub par candidates would be getting pushed through. Maybe their standards are higher than yours. You seem to be bothered by the quality of instruction and the percentage of people needing additional training. Perhaps it's not the quality of instruction but the skill set of new candidates that are lacking. For that to be the case you'd be wrong, and I'm willing to bet you won't budge on your viewpoint. Either way when you're sitting in the left seat and someone off ioe abandons controls at 50ft in your lap, you decide if it's the training departments fault or the person who was flying the airplane at the time.

 

If its the skill set of the candidates, then may I ask how did they pass checkride and make it to IOE so they can abandon control at 50ft to begin with? These "sub par" candidates as you called them, passed system test, CPT, recommended for checkride, passed checkride to get to where they are. They must have fallen through many cracks to be at the control with paying pax. Then may I ask, how is it possible a training dept has so many cracks to begin with? If the training dept is so good like you said, 2 things should happen:
1. These "sub par" candidates should have been long gone before IOE.
2. They are not "sub par" if they make it this far.

The % of people needing additional training is caused by the quality of instruction as I have given many examples before. If I am in left seat and know my FO is fresh out of OE, I will shadow the yoke and if they release someone who would abandon control at 50ft on to the line, then its another crack in the training dept.

By the way, wasn't the capt in the PVD accident a training capt? Why didnt he go around? If the training dept is so concern about safety, should the training capt be setting an example and go around on an unstablized approach?

 

[QUOTE=recap;1829754]Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

How on earth this place doesn't have a structured Syllabus is absolutely beyond me. It truly is. A giant white folder with a million things on it to " get done" is not a structured way to teach and prepare anyone.

There is zero structure and standardization between any of the instructors as well. I had 2 ex commies. The first was unbelievable. Amazing instructor who knew what was up. The 2nd week - not so much.

When I did my ride I was getting some crap from my examiner because of when I switched from white to green needles. Apparently one of the TWO different ways I learned during my training wasn't how "he does it". Really? Are you kidding me?

I had a field day during my post training survey. Sadly it doesn't sound like much has changed. Nothing will until there is true structure that is consistent between EVERY SINGLE instructor.

Your also right about having the long break for guys needing some extra sessions. While good in theory it is horrible detrimental, for most, unless you are only off a few days to a week. However, most are sent home for 2+ weeks and then expected to do 2 sessions and a check ride when they come back after nearly a month off. Your setup to fail.

They need to be far more aware of this and get people back in the Sim quickly. My roommate was one who needed a bit extra help. He was only sent home for 3 days. He credits that to him passing. He doesn't think if he was at home 2 weeks he would be on the line. Sadly he's probably right.

I'll end with this. The amount of money, time and resources they have invested in people (only to let go at no fault of their own) is without any doubt in the 6 figure range. Unbelievable.

BTW this post is not talking about the people who truly weren't cut out for this.

I'm talking about the biomass who need a bit of extra help and then are abandoned and setup to fail when they come back, after a month later.

 

Name User said, in part: The junior folks knew what they didn't know, the others thought they knew it all. Not a useful attitude in aviation training OR potty training.

 

That would contradict the low-time-no-skillset theory now wouldn't it?

 

Cause everyone knows the simulator is just like flying the real airplane right? Lands exactly the same I'm sure. Combine that with the added pressure of having people in the back, talking on the radios, having different crew members to work with, long days, bad weather, short overnights, and yes, some people can't do this job.

The training department is good, didn't say it was perfect. I barely know half of anyone in there. I've flown with a few, done check rides with several, had line checks, talked with a few others, and for the most part seem like a decent group of people that know what's going on. Show up with a good attitude, study, don't suck at flying, and odds are you'll get through. Back in the day my sim partner failed out. He was horrible at flying this jet. It was a tremendous amount of stress on me to know he was dragging me down. End of the day the instructor/instructors let him go and got me flying the line. Never once did a captain ever shadow the controls for me. I'd probably think he was a tool bag if it did though. I couldn't even stand it when flight instructors did that to students when I was a chief pilot for a school. Be ready to take over when necessary, don't micro manage the guy beside you.

Regarding PVD, I didn't know the guy and have no idea if he was in the training department. He tried to save an airplane that was very unstable rather than follow procedures and crashed. We do go arounds in the sim every year for a variety of reasons, some of which are being unstable. Regardless how you feel they feel, it's your butt when you're flying the airplane. If you need to go around, go around. Are you going to crash and then blame the training department for not doing enough go around emphasis during your training? I've done 2 that I can think of that were due to the airplane getting unstable. Ridiculous winds for one and the other was due to some kind of wake from the guy in front of us. I didn't let go and say F this, I flew the plane and got out of there. And if my FO let go during either event, you can be sure I'd be calling up the training department to let them know the guy is unsafe.