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Old 07-12-2015 | 04:38 AM
  #971  
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Originally Posted by Name User
This is what makes me puke about unions. New hires whom make very little money to begin actually are making (close to) livable wages with these bonuses and the union wants to shut it down? Give me a frigging break. Do you know how bad ALPA looked when pointed out the disparity in pay in a Congressional hearing? It was embarrassing.



Giving an 18 year lifer a $15-$20/hr raise but a new hire a $5/hr raise is a joke and the unions should be ashamed of it.

Your hate for Unions is clouding your understanding how how section six bargaining works. During the negotiations both parties are supposed to maintain status quo. Company is violating it. Union filed the lawsuit because they and the pilots want those changes into a Cba , not a monthly eBay style pay practice.

Get it now ?
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Old 07-12-2015 | 10:07 AM
  #972  
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Originally Posted by seattlepilot
Your hate for Unions is clouding your understanding how how section six bargaining works. During the negotiations both parties are supposed to maintain status quo. Company is violating it. Union filed the lawsuit because they and the pilots want those changes into a Cba , not a monthly eBay style pay practice.

Get it now ?
This. Bonuses artificially raise pay for first year FOs. It can be taken away at any time, and doesn't really fix the pay issues.

No potential flight student is going to look at a regional and say "wow, I'm going to take on 100k in student loan debt in the hopes that ABC Regional will continue to offer a 20k bonus in 4 years when I can finally qualify to work there". But if the base pay was decent, and there is a solid contract they might. Bonuses slow this industry's transition from bottom shelf to livable career.
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Old 07-12-2015 | 10:17 AM
  #973  
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Originally Posted by seattlepilot
Your hate for Unions is clouding your understanding how how section six bargaining works. During the negotiations both parties are supposed to maintain status quo. Company is violating it. Union filed the lawsuit because they and the pilots want those changes into a Cba , not a monthly eBay style pay practice.

Get it now ?
RAH approached the union several years ago about raising FO pay substantially and the "union" (read: collective lifers) told them to stuff it. They wanted THEIR raise, as if their six figure income wasn't enough while the FO's make 1/3 of that.

So, the company said F-you, and now offers bonuses. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Don't get me started.
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Old 07-12-2015 | 11:15 AM
  #974  
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Originally Posted by Name User
RAH approached the union several years ago about raising FO pay substantially and the "union" (read: collective lifers) told them to stuff it. They wanted THEIR raise, as if their six figure income wasn't enough while the FO's make 1/3 of that.

So, the company said F-you, and now offers bonuses. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Don't get me started.
You mean the pay raise that came with significant QOL decreases to include being contactable at all times? Yeah, that greedy union was only looking out for themselves.

I've turned down several well paying jobs because, "you have to call us if you want to have a drink because we may be working on a trip for you. You have 2 weeks of vacation but it's pretty much only allowed when the airplane is down for maintenance." Am I a union shill?
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Old 07-12-2015 | 11:24 AM
  #975  
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Originally Posted by Name User
RAH approached the union several years ago about raising FO pay substantially and the "union" (read: collective lifers) told them to stuff it. They wanted THEIR raise, as if their six figure income wasn't enough while the FO's make 1/3 of that.

So, the company said F-you, and now offers bonuses. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Don't get me started.
Revisionist history. The union told the company to write up an LOA to raise fo pay and the company balked.

Otw, the company could have just reduced pay to what it was whenever they wanted.
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Old 07-12-2015 | 12:25 PM
  #976  
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Originally Posted by Name User
RAH approached the union several years ago about raising FO pay substantially and the "union" (read: collective lifers) told them to stuff it. They wanted THEIR raise, as if their six figure income wasn't enough while the FO's make 1/3 of that.

So, the company said F-you, and now offers bonuses. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Don't get me started.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner for Idiot of the day!! Keep it up.
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Old 07-12-2015 | 02:15 PM
  #977  
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Originally Posted by Name User
This is what makes me puke about unions. New hires whom make very little money to begin actually are making (close to) livable wages with these bonuses and the union wants to shut it down? Give me a frigging break. Do you know how bad ALPA looked when pointed out the disparity in pay in a Congressional hearing? It was embarrassing.

Giving an 18 year lifer a $15-$20/hr raise but a new hire a $5/hr raise is a joke and the unions should be ashamed of it.
The funny and ironic part about your point of view is you want to hurt FOs more than anyone. Is a one time bonus better than a significant raise at all levels of FO pay? It can easily be argued that these bonuses are why 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc FOs are still making poverty level wages. It is far better to raise the entire scale than have a 1 time bonus. That bonus does not make an fo earn a livable wage either. 2nd year and beyond are still complete garbage.

I want to also point out that the company DID NOT want to give FOs a raise. That was nothing more than a ploy to make the union look bad. They presented those rates knowing the union wanted an LOA. That was something they were unwilling to even discuss. So they presented them anyway, and when the union voiced their displeasure at the lack of an LOA, the company balked and started their finger pointing. It was a political move that obviously worked on you.
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Old 07-12-2015 | 07:06 PM
  #978  
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Me thinks "Name User" is management incognito.
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Old 07-13-2015 | 08:23 AM
  #979  
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From: Eff Oh Won Fo Fife
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Originally Posted by Name User
RAH approached the union several years ago about raising FO pay substantially and the "union" (read: collective lifers) told them to stuff it. They wanted THEIR raise, as if their six figure income wasn't enough while the FO's make 1/3 of that.

So, the company said F-you, and now offers bonuses. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Don't get me started.
Back in 2008 or 2009 the Union went to the Company with an LOA to bump up FO pay by a few dollars. WH didn't even look at it.

In 2012 the Company decided it was just going to impose a new FO pay scale outside of the CBA. They didn't want to sit down and draw up an LOA on it.

That sets a pretty dangerous precedent to allow the Company to make their own pay scales up. Once you allow them to do that, they can also lower it when they fell they should.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 12:30 AM
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Default Surprised no one posted this?

Teamsters file lawsuit against Republic Airways over pilot pay | Labor content from ATWOnline

Teamsters file lawsuit against Republic Airways over pilot pay

[UPDATED] The Teamsters union representing pilots at Republic Airways has filed suit against the carrier in federal court in Indianapolis, accusing it of illegally changing work rules and pay while the sides bargain on a new contract.

The lawsuit is unusual as it essentially accuses Republic of paying pilots too much money. The complaint by the Teamsters Local 357 has two main issues. First, it accuses Republic of unilaterally implementing “higher pay rates for additional flying by pilots.” Second, it says Republic is illegally paying signing bonuses to new-hire pilots “to subsidize their wages above the pay rates prescribed by the current collective bargaining agreement.”

The union says it fears the increased pay “undercuts the pilots’ bargaining position.”

Rest of the article available with the link. Really surprised the Teamsters didn't try this long ago.
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