I think it's important to note that the number of street hires to flows is skewed at the moment due to AA furlough recalls. Cujo/Mason32 has admitted on EL that street hires resume after the furlough recalls.

Contrary to what he is trying to sell it is indeed possible to get in at AA through the front door.

 

Turbulent or laminar?

 

While we're on the subject of skewing, it should also be pointed out that Wilson's flow numbers in his frosting covered letter included flow-through's from an entirely different mechanism and requirement when AA wasn't even hiring from the street.

When people resort to skewing or inflating information, it means they have an agenda and their motives and thus credibility should be suspect.

 

Is flow really a big deal? My doctor says it is.

 

Compass lost the top 300 out of 450 pilots in less than 2 years. So yes, when mainline is hiring, a real flow works, which Envoy has a significant one.

The Compass flow has ended and it is hurting the recruiting and retention efforts like PSA, Mesa and others are seeing. The only one doing ok is Endeavor and they pay $20k/year more than everyone else.

 

On PDT...

Any announcement yet on where the 145s will be based? I have heard PDT/AA are battling back and forth... AA wants ORD and PDT wants DCA and/or DCA/PHL? Any updates?

Also, I have been told by several PDT pilots and a few recruiters (taken with lots of grains of salt) that the 145s will go anywhere from mid-level to super-junior when the start coming online. Isn't there a pay raise with a switch from the Dash to the 145? I can't imagine anyone not taking the extra pay to move to the jet.

The first guy at PDT to tell me otherwise about moving to the 145 did so last week (another recruiter).... He said "if you get on with PDT before December, you'll get to move to the 145 eventually... maybe a year or two." I don't mind flying the Dash for a while, but I would prefer to move to the 145 on the advice of the legacy CA's I have spoken to. What's the consensus here? How long would it take for a guy getting online late this summer/early fall to get in the 145?

Thanks guys!

 

I've been told the announcement is coming soon. Possibly even this week. Rumor is at least a PHL base but I've heard similar rumors about AA mgmt wanting us in ORD, even heard LAX at one point. I think negotiations with AWAC was what was holding up the decision. I know AAG wanted to move most of AWAC's operations to ORD and have PDT take over DCA and PHL ops with the 145. I guess AWAC mgmt wasn't too keen on moving operations, not sure where it stands now but we should know soon enough.

Honestly if you're basing your decision to come to PDT on how fast you can fly a jet I'd wait until an announcement. If they ended up putting the 145 in PHL it could go senior, but if they put them in an AA base like ORD or LAX it could go very very junior. If you really don't care about flying a jet now is a good time to get in. I think once they iron out the basing and route structure PDT will have a lot more applicants. Probably better to get in before the wave. I think anyone getting in now will have a quick upgrade opportunity if you have the time.

 

We were told in a town hall meeting recently that the jets would be east coast based. They (SVP of Regional Carriers) specifically stated it would NOT be ORD, DFW, or the Midwest. If you get on with PDT now, you could easily get the 145 within a year or so. I really think 2 years would be extreme. 20 aircraft will require about 90-100 FOs to staff. We have 180 FOs on the list I just checked. Some will remain on the Dash or flow and at least 40-60 will upgrade in that time due to the flow and growth. You would be in an excellent position to not only bid that equipment, but upgrade in 2-3 years time or less. PM me if you want any more info.

 

Sure, if you're friends & family or a former NASA mission specialist.

Eaglefly just can't stand the fact that due to the retirements a new guy today should be right where he is in only 6 years since leaving college. While he probably spent 20 or more years to do the same thing. He's a sour person and can't stand seeing somebody get a better life than he had. It's sad really.

When staffing gets tight AAG will use the flow to attract pilots to their regionals. Sabotaging that flow like Eaglefly suggests would ruin their recruiting tool.

 

Your delusion and yes........more spin. The FACTS prove that historically those hired from the "street" since AA started hiring comprised a wide range of backgrounds including civilian regional F/O's and captains, interns and military, even some corporate.

Your bull**** knows no boundaries.


It's you who has become sad (and AFAIC, your eventual presence at AA will be a sad day for those of us already here ). I'd love to see most Envoy pilots get here in 6 years and by that time I'll likely be flying with some of them (but, hopefully never with you), but again that is NOT guaranteed as you endlessly parrot on these forums ad nauseum. For the record, even if most of the present junior Envoy F/O's get delayed 10 years (which is unlikely), they'd STILL have faster AA career progression then I did if they are younger than 40 and good for them. I'm happy with my situation in life and at AA and have no regrets or sour grapes and I realize this disappoints you forcing you to fabricate and spin even more. Considering you're 48 and will be flowing fairly soon, you DO realize you're in a riskier boat then me and for that I'm happy too. If something unforeseen occurs and you end up stagnated at the very bottom or furloughed, don't expect any tears from me.

They may indeed attempt to use the flow to attract pilots, but if so, I'm convinced it will be far less successful then they had planned forcing them to try another tack. In fact, I hear that AA street hires may be delayed until Fall to temporarily accelerate Envoy flows to the AA side to right-size Envoy faster and alter the timing of the PPA to coincide with a certain plan they have for Envoy. Sounds like good news for 824 pilots, but it's another example of how things can change quickly and that NOTHING is certain for the future, including the PPA flow or Envoy's present make-up. This may simply be a "test run" to see if giving the impression of having that model really brings in the people they'll need like other regional pilots, military, etc. As for "sabotaging" AAG or Envoy's recruiting tool, that's absurd. I'm simply one opinion on a pilot forum. The only thing I'm doing is countering self-serving bull**** artists like you from deliberately spinning information and providing disinformation in the attempt to misrepresent the situation at Envoy to make up for your own boneheaded moves over the last year or so that got you into the present situation you're in while concurrently greasing your own ride OUT of Envoy leaving those behind you to fend for themselves.

Personally, I think you're the worst union rep in the history of the profession.