HotMamaPilot

you are very short sighted....have fun flying an RJ at commuter pay for the rest of your career. You guys JUST DON"T GET IT and I'm not so sure how much longer I should bless you with my presence on this sight(i.e. voice of reason). Maybe I too will go the way of the dodo bird(and calcapt)

HotMamaPilot

well put.. I've been saying this all along, yet I get criticized for it. Must be good to be a man

ShyGuy

And where were mainline pilots and scope back when the RJs first came in the spotlight (early to mid 90s)?

I'm not saying I support more and more CRJ900/E190s at the regional level, but you need to look at who you are placing the blame to.

The RJs should never have made it to a regional to begin with. They should have stayed at the mainline level. But guess who farmed them out, in order to protect their widebody pay and other issues?

XJPILOT1

Please!!! The seniority list at NWA is top heavy. Management will not allow NWA Jurasic NINE pilots to fly the 900's. Won't happen. Not for that pay rate. Economics is driving this biz...period. Within the next ten years over half of NWA's pilot will be retired. Then the fight for better pay scale and scope will be winable, not now. P.S. If I fly an RJ the rest of my life that's up to me. Alot of you guys/girls complain at every step of your career. Can't wait to be a Flight Instructor, Flight Instructing sucks, can't wait to fly commuters. Commuters suck, can't wait to fly mainline. If we quit others will fly for lower rates. Remember, someone will fly these planes.

higney85

If you wanna go back through my other posts you will find many times where I have said anything over 50 seats needs to be mainline in my opinion. While I could sit here and say that repeatedly, the reality is 90 seats and less will be at the regional level for the present and immediate future. So if you say that its short sighted for me to want to see them on my side of the fence thats fine, but someone needs to fly them. I think it would be great to see the -900's at mesaba, they deserve them, but if they dont go there (for whatever reason) I would want them at pncl. You can call that short sighted b/c thats what it is- the decision would affect me for the next 3-4 years. I dont plan on staying at the regional level any longer than I need to, I just need 1000PIC, but I have 3 years til that point no matter what. No matter what you say, the mainline carriers will continue to grow and hire. Between retirements and airplanes on order there is quite a bit of movement, added to that the fact that many people will choose to stay at a regional for QOL that they/ their family have grown accustomed to- I don't feel your argument holds water for my career, but maybe for others it is very true. I have 39 years left with the FAA and a 4-year degree, a regional is a stepping stone for me and many others in similar circumstances as myself. I have flown with captains that have interviews at other jobs- above the regional level- but most dont seem very motivated b/c they are set in their lives/sched/family and dont want to start over. How do you argue with someone to change everything when they are happy. Not everyone looks at the career the same as you hotmamapilot.

higney85

[QUOTE=saab2000;109461]Good Luck???? WTF???

Luck has nothing to do with this. The deck has been stacked in favor of the so called "Management" there for a long time.[/QUOTE


I just hope mesaba doesnt get beaten down any more. They need the 900's and I hope they get em. As much as its not a question of luck, I hope it works out good for XJ.

RJ85FO

Here is the language from the NWA TA that talks about 76 seat jets at a wholly-owned subsidiary:


4. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are flown at a separate wholly owned subsidiary/affiliate of NWA (called “SJet” for now”).
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 90 total aircraft, which is inclusive of the 55 aircraft limit for the Feeder Carrier flying.
• The 90 aircraft limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline.
• Furloughed NWA pilots have the first right to the jobs at “SJet”, but will be on a separate seniority list.
• There would be a “flow up / flow down” between pilots at “SJet” and NWA, including new hire pilots at SJet and NWA. The flow up / down would be subject to metering limitations.
• NWA would be allowed to sell “SJet” after 10 77-110 seat configured Small Jets “are in active service” at NWA mainline.
• If the successor owner of “SJet” does not comply with the Flow Up / Down provisions, the number of 51-76 seat SJs being flown by Feeder Carriers would be required to be reduced to a baseline of 55 aircraft.
• The pay rates and work rules for the “SJet” flying are covered later.
• Note: the trigger for NWA to outsource up to 90 76 seat configured aircraft is dependent upon maintaining the flow up/down process.

RJ85FO

I do not have the NWA contract, but my understanding is that is says that any ADDITIONAL flying done by a wholly owned subsidiary, must be done by NWA pilots. The fact that the purchase of Mesaba was announced BEFORE the aircraft were assigned caused the problem. From what I have heard, it would not have been a violation if the aircraft were assigned before the purchase deal was signed.

Something for the lawyers to work out. It doesn't really impact any NWA furloughees since there are 72 aircraft that need to be crewed (36 at Mesaba and 36 at Compass). Obviously there are jobs for everyone, it is just a matter of seniority lists.

Ftrooppilot

RJ85FO: Thanks for the posting. Here is an interesting spin.

"When ownership is not shared, so that a subsidiary is wholly owned, it is called a branch. A subsidiary is different from a branch in that the former is jointly owned by the parent company and others while the latter is completely owned by the parent company."


Mesaba and Compass may each be a "branch" of NWA. The contract language states that: "Furloughed NWA pilots have the first right to the jobs at “SJet”, but will be on a separate seniority list." Does this mean at both Mesaba and Compass ?

Continuing the contract states: There would be a “flow up / flow down” between pilots at “SJet” and NWA, including new hire pilots at SJet and NWA.Is there going to be a flow up / down at both Mesaba and Compass ?

Finally the contract states: • Note: the trigger for NWA to outsource up to 90 76 seat configured aircraft is dependent upon maintaining the flow up/down process

Lots of interesting questions. The lawyers are going to make a lot of money before this is over.

PinnacleFO

well if mesaba is now nwa then they will fly the 900 with 86 seats, compass will fly the 170 with 76 seats and pinnacle or skywest will fly the 900 with 76 seats