I bet the RJ CAs and Senior RJ FOs who are playing games on guard or posting stupid stuff on social media aren't prior full time military. It's more than just flying. Was the drunk AA guy military? Was the prostitution guy military? Maybe but I doubt it. I'm not trying to change your mind. It's just apparent that having never done military flying you just don't know what you're talking about. I'll bet the people making these determinations at the big airlines have been military so they know what they're evaluating. You can try to chock it up to good old boy network but it's not.

 

No one is saying military pilots are better than regional pilots. If you look at it from a purely experience standpoint, then yes regional pilots that have been flying in and out of the same hubs for years would be the obvious choice. However the major airlines are looking for more than just the experience.

What the military pilots posses that is missing from most regional pilots is what I would call the "mission mindset" Military pilots, especially recently separated military pilots, approach the job of flying the airplane as a mission. They feel it is their duty to get the airplane from point A to point B no matter what.

Regional pilots on the other hand feel it is there job to get the airplane from point A to point B in the safest and most efficient manner within the confines of FAR 117 and the contract.

Military pilots are used to following orders and are more likely to waive provisions of the contract to help the company (thus completing the mission) than a regional pilot that has been getting screwed for 6-15 years. Military pilots are less familiar with working under a union and a contract and less comfortable with telling people no.

I was former enlisted military and it takes time to change from thinking "this is a mission that must be accomplished" to realizing "this is a job that I will do my best at, within the confines of the contract"

If legacy carriers were really concerned with knowledge and experience then the interview would still consist of ATP test and simulators, instead it consist of hogan test, personality assessments, and HR meetings.

They assume we are all nearly equal in terms or trainability, mold ability, and adaptability. They are looking for the individuals that will work hardest to ensure the companies mission success. Since military pilots in general already conform to a certain mold, it is far easier for the legacies to draw from that pool than it is to screen thousands of regional pilots.

 

Your right all mitary guys are spot on and outstanding citizens. I must have missed the 4 Star General Pastreus scandal last year...

Bottom line is a 121 RJ CA is going to have ZERO issues and BS on OE at a legacy compared to a fighter jock whos never in his life flown in major Class Bravo or done 3-4 lgs a day. I dont even know how you can dispute that. Seriously.

Your right though, ive never flown military, but I did always find p it surprising the comments from 3 of my classmates who did fly military. They couldnt comprehend they were firehoused company OPs and systems in 4 weeks vs the 6 months spent in the school house in the military. Really?

 

Ok, I'll take the bait...

Since, based on your position elucidated in this post, I am fairly certain that you have not been through the rigorous selection process and training that is the hallmark of military aviation. Therefore I would maintain you are not privy to what the airlines are truly looking for in a candidate.

Do the majors prefer, or based on the intonations in your post, dare we say "covet" ex-mil? I would not use the term "covet". Rather, I would say the Major's KNOW the commodity they are getting when hiring a former military pilot. It speaks to learning curve, mental processing capacity, piloting skills, and discipline required to make it into and through the military training programs.

Being an ex-mil fighter guy (20 + years of flying fighters), who is presently flying with a regional, I don't get your point. I have not been scooped up by a major. I update my apps just like everyone else, continue to try to be better at my job and hope for one day to get the call up for an interview.

I know several folks at my airline getting picked up (seems like the pace is quickening). Outstanding all of them, and not a single one ex-mil. I did not go on a forum and claim that the majors "don't like mil guys/gals" based on that.

Based on the hiring stats I've seen, I think it is still pretty fair across the board.

 

It's really quite simple, military vs. civilian. I'll just skip right over the selection process and quality of individual because that right there separates civilian vs. military. What else?

Military pilots have self-discipline. It was instilled into them, and they HAD to have it. Teamwork, too. Mission over self mentality. And don't even get me started on ability to cope with stress. Lives depended upon it...a heckava lot more than in civilian flying. Civilian briefings/de-briefings and flight planning vs. military isn't even worth comparing. It's night and day difference.

And training? A military pilot's training is 10x more valuable than the avg. training a civilian receives. Not even worth comparing.

All of this breeds a person (military aviation) that comes with a "street cred" that a civilian-only pilot doesn't have. That's not to say a civvy doesn't have the capabilities for these things or doesn't possess them already, but the employers KNOW the mil guys have it. No question.

And I say all that as someone who wasn't military. I'll say one other thing too...

If I can let a military guy/gal who served me and mine in line in front of me, I'm grateful for the opportunity to do something more than just say "thank you for your service" to them.


That damn fine man did more in service to our country than you will ever do with your's. You aren't even worth the belly-lint in his navel, and you just proved it with your DB's spew.

 

Ok....in the pop.....

First, you shouldn't be so overt about your disdain for military pilots. Here's the thing, as previously stated. A military pilot is a known commodity, having been successfully trained and gone on to operate his.....or her aircraft in demanding, hostile environments that most of the time aren't friendly, let alone controlled. I really wouldn't compare Bravo airspace to a combat/military environment dude. Yeah, it's busy and all, but seriously......that's a point that can be trained to. You on the other hand, probably couldn't do the military job. How do I know, because you're whining about it. So in the end be careful how you craft your print. Be a hater if you want, you're not the only one by any stretch but at the end of the day you'd be foolish to assume that a Major airline is just looking for a gear monkey. When was the last time you were on fire, or missing a control surface courtesy of the enemy, or pushing out into weather that was zero/zero because one of your own was shot up and in trouble? That's right, never. Good luck with that mainline jump.

Oh, spellcheck bro, spellcheck..........

 

Once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Never flown in major class B airspace? Really? LAX, SD, Naha, JP. Yup, never seen major airspace. Never done 3-4 legs a day. Nope just 12 hour combats ops and mission training ops with so many "legs" you lose count and hot refueling so you don't get a chance to refill your frapaccino. How many times have you had to **** in a bottle and skip meals to get your job done? I can tell you these 3-4 leg days are cake. Thank you for proving how much you don't know.

I have no doubt experienced pure civilian pilots will be just fine flying when serious deviations occur. Military pilots will reach that point much earlier in their 121 career in comparison. We aren't hired for when everything is tame and normal ops.

 

My god what a tired old debate...from both sides. Do regional pilots possess a skill set that makes them a good fit at mainline? Yes. Do military pilots? Yes. Both groups are equally qualified based on completely different skill sets, and there are people from both camps who, most assuredly, have no business in a 121 environment.

Does this thread need to devolve into a pointless penis shaking "my job is harder so I'm a better fit at Delta" contest?

 

Bingo. Both are qualified, I just feel RJ guys who already fly in the same Hubs and same passengers and realm (121) cleary have an advantage in this segment of the industry. Sure ive played Falcon 2.0, but im not ignorant enough to say I can combat fly a F-16, yet some military guys think they can and should be at a legacy the instant their commitment is up. Does this mean they cant and wont be great 121 legacy pilots? Of course not, but come on.

And for the record I clearly stated I could care less what any of you think. If you think Im anti military then thats on you.

I will always find it pretty damn humerous, though, how some of the military guys in my newhire class, couldnt physically comprehend that they were expected to know all the systems/ops in 4 weeks - and not have their hands held and coddled to.

 

Training (from BI to IOE) in the regional was a cakewalk compared to my pilot training and initial fighter qual courses. Not sure of their backgrounds, but my guess is that they, like any ex-mil pilot, must have a very detailed level of systems and operational procedures knowledge. With little redundancy, you have to know your jet inside and out, especially when the AAA starts taking pieces of your airplane off. Moreover, the rules a mil pilot has to comply with not only include all FARs, but also host nation (when you are stationed overseas), Air Force, Major Command and local flying regulations. Add to that all the tactics, techniques and procedures for employing the weapon system, and you can see there is tons to know. I love only having to worry about FARs, SOPs and FOM. The contract is not rocket science either.

When you try to apply that to the regional airline training, you can't get to the level of detail we are expected to know and where accustomed to in the military in that short amount of time. Airlines don't expect you to know all the aircraft systems to the engineering level (like we had to in the military). Rather you need to know what to do when the red, yellow numbers and lights start popping up - see QRH/IAI. Once they realized that they didn't have to know how many psi the fetzer valve will trigger a red light, then it was probably a non-issue for them from then on.