RV5M

This level of ability is the norm. Think of all the barely capable, Florida trained pilots out there operating 777s and 320s all over the world under "use the autopilot all the time at all cost" procedures. Beyond the ability to get the airplane onto the runway and turn off safely, I'm not sure management groups really care how great of a pilot one might be. The goal is to automate us out of the cockpit as much and as quickly as possible, both with strict procedures and technology.

The other day we were asked to make a "short approach" in the 900. I clicked off the autopilot/FD and made the approach. There aren't many places left in the world where ATC would ask a jet airliner to do something like that. It felt good to be capable of making that approach, but I wonder if that ability has any value beyond a personal sense of accomplishment.

I think about this quite a bit and have considered whether I want to continue working in a job that will someday be reduced to the equivalent of the button pusher at the front of a subway car. There's a good Vanity Fair article on the subject here - Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves? | Vanity Fair

This quote really got me:

It is natural that some pilots object [to automation]. This appears to be primarily a cultural and generational matter. In China, for instance, the crews don’t care. In fact, they like their automation and rely on it willingly. By contrast, an Airbus man told me about an encounter between a British pilot and his superior at a Middle Eastern airline, in which the pilot complained that automation had taken the fun out of life, and the superior answered, to paraphrase, “Hey *******, if you want to have fun, go sail a boat. You fly with automation or find some other job.”

So, excepting pilots, does anyone really care if this was a semi-questionable crosswind landing? I'm not sure.

RockyBoy

Until I saw this thread, I thought that was a great landing. I fly an Airbus though, we'll take anything when it comes to cross wind landings.

I was told A320 family is certified to land in a full crab up to the max x-wind limit BTW. Not that I've ever tried that.

B200 Hawk

Honest question, if/when we get to full automation, would George be able to handle wind like that? I mean we all know he can hold the crab the whole way down, regardless of the angle. But landing at 500 fpm with 40 degrees crab doesn't sound like fun in back.

RV5M

I don't think so but, as evidenced by the hundreds of crosswind videos on the internet, most pilots seem to be able to muster an acceptable landing out of it, a la our Republic friends or the aviators in BoilerUP's videos.

...or we'll all just land without kicking out the crab and not worry about "old school" crosswind technique.

gloopy

Yes. The first time you shear a gear off because you didn't even attempt to apply basic crosswind landing technique they reduce your pay approximately 100%.

Adlerdriver

Most aircraft with autoland capability have limits on that well below the max manual crosswind landing limits. MD-11 crosswind limit is 15 knots for autoland. I've seen it on other aircraft as low as 10 knots.

That said, if you do have a crosswind (within limits), as you approach the flare, George does a nice job putting in rudder/aileron to align the fuselage and touchdown straight (at least on the MD-11).

Brand X

Headline should have said..... Incompetent regional pilot forced to land plane sideways.

JamesNoBrakes

Xpost from SWA thread in Safety:

We see lots of pilots in Alaska "stick" runways in the summer time, by either kicking it out and landing straight or doing the same and landing somewhat sideloaded during high wind conditions.

Unfortunately, come winter time, they get swept right off the runway as soon as they touchdown, because they don't have the aileron input to keep the airplane on the runway. You'd think this goes hand in hand, but you'd be surprised.

The bigger the airplane, the more you have to crab on final and kick out usually due to wingspan (not to mention engines), but it's bad technique to not be rolling in the aileron as you are rolling onto the runway, they should go hand in hand and you should be mindful of the demonstrated x-wind. I've seen some pilots make amazing landings in transport category aircraft using these techniques, but I also know of many people who just got swept right off a runway because they were out flying in winds way too strong for them to handle with no aileron to keep the airplane planted. I'm discussing significant x-wind situations btw, not a moderate amount where the weight/mass of the aircraft easily overcomes the conditions.

In a SE airplane, sideslipping down at least gives you some idea whether or not you'll be able to control the airplane on the runway after touchdown. The more inexperienced the pilot, the better it is to do this as early as possible, even still, sometimes when flying light singles, I'll do it way early, just to see what the wind is doing when the gusts hit, etc. The better you get with timing and other control, the more you can revert back to the above methods IMO, but you need to be sure you have the control on the runway, otherwise you're going to be swept off fast.

A big difference with big and little planes is as soon as that transport category airplane touches down, big spoilers come up and kill all the lift, dumping weight on the tires like crazy, compared to a light airplane where the wing is still carrying a lot of lift and the entire airplane is more like a parachute. This is one reason it's not apples and apples when discussing both and one more thing that contributes to pilots in light airplanes getting swept off a runway.

Of course, someone always brings up the airplanes that can land in a crab, which amounts to close to zero in the transport category flying people around...

RE The landing in the video:

Looks to me like he came down in a crab in excessively high x-winds, attempted to straighten it out and land it correctly, but didn't have the rudder authority due to the winds being too high, and as a result, side-loaded the he|| out of it.

ClickClickBoom

When you get some more experience.....and not the APC kind.

Al Czervik

Fly the bus. Thought it was a totally acceptable (considering the conditions) landing too.
I agree james. Looks like he try's to kick out the crab in the flare to no avail.

A lot of bashing here. I better look for a new job... Sounds like 95% of the guys here are Chuck Yeagers.