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AAL2 heavy emergency JFK

Old 05-06-2010, 05:02 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Rogue Pilot View Post
Is it an actual limitation or max demonstrated. All jets I've flown have had a max demonstrated which is not a limitation, thus exceeding it is not a limitation, but I dont know that airplane.
In the -88 at Delta, we have an actual crosswind limitation. In the 737, it was a max demonstrated crosswind component. Just depends on the plane you're flying and how it was certified. Not sure what American has on their 767's or 777's.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:08 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot View Post
I'll bet they had already declared minimum fuel with approach and maybe even asked for 31L and been denied. The crew probably came to the conclusion that if they got one wind report out of tolerance they were declaring an emergency and landing the plane. If they hadn't declared an emergency, they probably would have been vectored all over creation while the controllers attempted to accommodate their request for 31L. I don't think they would carelessly pull the emergency card unless they absolutely needed to.
I think you mean 31R as 31L would be real interesting avoiding all the construction vehicles! They are making good progress on it though.

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Old 05-06-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly View Post
I think you mean 31R as 31L would be real interesting avoiding all the construction vehicles! They are making good progress on it though.

Philly
Did I say the wrong runway? Sorry about that. They did declare an emergency, though, so I guess they could land on it if they wanted to.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:29 PM
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Runway closure at JFK Airport blamed for creating dangerous landing situations | 7online.com



QUEENS (WABC) -- The pilot of an American Airlines plane and an air traffic controller had a disagreement that forced the pilot to make an emergency landing at JFK Airport. "American 2 heavy, 22L. You're clear to land," the air traffic controller at the JFK tower said. When the pilots of the passenger-filled 767 American Airlines plane got their landing instructions from the Kennedy Tower, they realized they'd be touching down into a 35-mile per hour cross wind. "We can't land on 22," the pilot responded. "We're breaking off approach and if you don't give us to runway 31 right, we're going to declare an emergency."



"The winds again increased, exceeded the characteristics of the plane, and he was forced to have another option," said Steve Abraham, of the JFK Controller union. "He had no choice. He couldn't land 22L, it would have been illegal for him." It would also be dangerous, agreed Abraham. Landing into a cross wind is much more complicated, but since the closing eight weeks ago of JFK's main runway, air traffic controllers say they've been pressured by the FAA to land planes into tricky cross winds.
There is a safer option, but it would require the use of one runway for all flights in and out of the airport, which would create nightmarish delays.
"It's an issue of capacity versus safety," Abraham said. "If we are on a single runway configuration, landing on runway 31R, which was the runway most in line with the wind, we have major capacity issues, we will run extensive delays." On Tuesday evening, American Flight 2 out of Los Angeles felt the balance between major delays and safety had been pushed to far. "You're saying you're declaring an emergency?" the controller asked.
"Three times I told you that, three times, we're declaring and emergency," the pilot responded. Now, low on fuel, the pilot made it clear he would not land into strong crosswinds.
"American 2 heavy, we are turning around to the left here and landing 31," the pilot said. "Remove everyone from our way, we've declared an emergency, we're on visual." American 2 heavy, 31 right clear to land, wind gusting at 24," the JFK tower controller said. The controller said Tuesday's emergency landing is a warning that with the main runway under construction, safety should not be compromised just to avoid delays.
"I can explain to somebody why they're late," Abraham said. "I can't explain when they don't get there." If you have a tip about this or any other issue you'd like investigated, please give our tipline a call at 877-TIP-NEWS. You may also e-mail us at [email protected] and follow Jim Hoffer on Twitter at twitter.com/nycinvestigates
(Copyright ©2010 WABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue Pilot View Post
Is it an actual limitation or max demonstrated. All jets I've flown have had a max demonstrated which is not a limitation, thus exceeding it is not a limitation, but I dont know that airplane.
In the 121 world they're one in the same. See what happens if you exceed either one and there's a problem.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue Pilot View Post
Is it an actual limitation or max demonstrated. All jets I've flown have had a max demonstrated which is not a limitation, thus exceeding it is not a limitation, but I dont know that airplane.
In my manual the max demonstrated x-wind is the limitation. It use to not be a limitation...
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:06 PM
  #17  
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//Threadjack//

Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
American Too Heavy... that was the greatest call sign ever.
America's Fattest Cities : Men's Health Metrogrades

Corpus Wins!! I love my city!

//End threadjack//
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:38 PM
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I'm not suprised at how the controllers were acting at JFK yesterday. Kudos to the crew for sticking to the plan and making ATC bend.

The controllers at JFK do an amazing job, but need an ego check. Even when an a/c has declared, they still don't listen. Amazing.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:33 PM
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AVWEB reported:

Speaking for the JFK Controller union, Steve Abraham told ABC news, the pilot "had no choice. He couldn't land 22L, it would have been illegal for him," . . . . But, according to controllers, maintaining the pre-closure traffic volume in all weather conditions, without incurring delays, has presented challenges made manifest in this testy exchange.

If this is accurate, and reading between the lines, it might appear that the FAA is pressuring the JFK controllers to cram 'em in and make the traffic load the pilots' problem.

I know this might come as a shock to some.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:39 PM
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Kudos to that crew.
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