usmc-sgt

Same here, our company has made it max crosswind in the CFM.

BeaglePilot

I think some people need to understand ZNY center does not operate like some other centers in the country. "Min Fuel" means nothing to NY, because they have 200 other a/c coming over the pond all declaring "Min Fuel."

You can ask for whatever you need, your not gonna get it. Even in this case the crew "declared" and still the controllers tried to play stupid, and act like they didn't hear the crew delcare an emergency.

You can request 31R as soon as you get the local ATIS, which was maybe 150mi out. All your request is going to go in the garbage, they are not going to change the entire arrival configuration for one a/c, needless to say how this change will affect EWR or LGA. The crew did the right thing by declaring and deviating from FAR necessary to get that aircraft safely on the ground.

Spend some time here flying in and out of JFK and you'll understand how things work here.

Globaldriver53

What was the nature of the emergency? I hope for them it wasn't a failed Localizer in VMC condition or a crosswind. Something doesn't make sense here.

hm79

Runway decisions in the NY are are not made by atc's, they are made by FAA management in CLOSE coordination with the airlines. Any time JFK is in a single runway configuration the users complain loudly. The user perspective is if the airplane can accept a xxkt crosswind and the wind is not greater than that number we will use runway configurations that are the most effecient. Safety, and landing into the wind is now a distant second in NY.

Please do not blame the controller for placing you in a crosswind situation; if we had our way safety would be and should always be first. You would land into the wind!!!

The only standardfor runway changes in NY is pilot refusal to accept the landing runway because of the wind conditions. With that said there are companies who operate in the NY area who want to know the flight number of every ac that complains or does not accept the publshed runways.

Landing in a crosswind is no longer an atc initiated action it is the airlines that are dictating runway usage!!!

FlyerJosh

Beagle,

I've spent plenty of time flying as a regional pilot into NYC airports and other busy class B, including ORD and JFK. I also understand the various intricacies of how ATC/Operations choose runways and such...

That said, I don't have an issue with a crew declaring an emergency or exercising their authority... (Too many pilots are afraid to ask for help or declare an emergency or take whatever actions they need). I have refused runways at ORD and other busy class B airports due to tailwinds or crosswind limitations.

I just wonder if they weren't too far involved if they waited until the point where they had to maneuver at the last minute and force ATC into moving traffic to declare or at least let ATC know they had an issue.

I don't know about you guys, but if I'm starting to eat into my legal reserve fuel, I'm starting to pay real close attention to the situation and all of my alternatives. If I get into VFR reserves (below 30 minutes of fuel), I'm going to be letting ATC know that I want priority handling, especially if I'm flying into an airport like JFK. I would imagine that AA has some sort of established protocol on fuel reserves and bingo fuel. Pulling up the flight aware history for this flight it looks like AA2 on 5/4 held for a bit, but overall the flight wasn't that much longer than most of the other flights.

Folks are right when they say ATC doesn't dictate what you can and can't do with your aircraft. But the flip side is that we as pilots often don't see the big picture when it comes to traffic management and operational flow. Just because your TCAS doesn't show a target out there doesn't mean that it's safe to just go barrelling through some of the busiest airspace in the Northeast because you let the situtation deteriorate too far.

As the old adage goes: "A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid having to exercise his superior skill." How far were these guys going to burn into their comfort level before they rose the red flag?

What would have happened if on short final to 22L (300'AGL) the aircraft holding short crossed the hold short line and AAL2 had to go around? Would they have sidestepped to the taxiway? Manuevered at 500' for one of the other runways? Run out of fuel climbing back to pattern altitude?

Without all of the facts its tough to determine. IF (and I state this with a big IF since we don't know all the facts), but IF the crew got to the point where they were so tight on fuel that they couldn't go around, declare an emergency and get priority handling back to the field/runway of their choice, IMHO, they waited WAAAAAY to long to exercise their authority.

Packer Backer

And what if the ATIS varied from what the tower was calling for winds? They may not have known about the excessive crosswind till on tower freq and they heard the wind reports issued from to the tower to preceding aircraft.

FlyerJosh

Okay, so... then you go around and let ATC know you can't accept the runway. No biggie- I've done it before at several airports.

I'll toss it back at you and ask what would the crew have done if all the way down the approach the winds were within limits and then on short final they got a windshear alert or tower announced winds 310/25g35?

It all goes back to my original point of if you aren't considering valid options at every point along the way and taking appropriate corrections, you're painting yourself into a corner from which you may not be able to recover.

enuff

Of course you need to be hired there first. Who do you fly for?

tortue

Priority? Sure that's the right word to use after a Spanish speaking crew requested oh so many years ago at the same airport?

Avianca Flight 52 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Emergency means emergency. Priority doesn't.

80ktsClamp

We have a winner. If you need priority, you are an emergency. State it as such and don't be a pansy about filling out some paperwork.