You guys are speculating way too much without access to many of the facts.

Fuel was not an issue.

Controller told them that, to get 31R, they would have to declare an emergency. Fine, we're declaring an emergency. Controller using typical NY style intimidation to not inconvenience himself.

767 xwind limits are LIMITATIONS that cannot be exceeded. If the controller refuses my request for a different runway due to winds being out of limits, I would a) divert to another airport or b) do exactly as this crew did.

Regarding a previous poster's comments overflying numerous airports and having forecasts (FliFast) - get real. Are you telling me you would fly LAX-JFK and divert halfway because JFK has ONE RUNWAY that is out of wind limits? (Nah, that can't be - more like your typical anti-AA comments that have no bearing on the real story.)

Kudos to the crew for not letting the controller fly the aircraft. If you think otherwise, you need to grow a pair.

 

If fuel was not an issue, that I would surmise that the captain is going to probably have a few issues to resolve with the FAA. Let's remember:

The bold and the color emphasis are my own, but that's the key here. If the crew didn't need immediate handling and landing, then the captain has exceeded his authority as the PIC and in the process of doing so has violated several other FARs: (Adherance to ATC clearance, and Careless/Reckless Operation come to mind).

Declaring Emergency/Mayday/Pan Pan doesn't give a pilot carte blanche to deviate or violate any regulation that they see fit, nor does a "Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead" attitude make it any more correct or safe.

As to your statement, kudos to the crew for getting the plane safely on the ground (even if I personally think that there might be some question to the methods they accomplished such task). Hopefully nobody here lets the controller fly their aircraft... (so far as I know, UAV interfaces have yet to be installed in any passenger carrying aircraft).

But when pilots make it "all about us", what's the point of having an ATC system in the first place? Of course we could all just "grow a pair" and do what we want...

 

The above statement as told to you is incorrect. There was NO intimidation as so not to incovenience the controller.

 

Ahh yes I would divert if the winds were out of my comfort zone at destination airport, rather than shooting an approach, breaking it off and descending to only 600 feet while pointing away from the airport and flying through Indian Country and not following an ATC Controllers attempt to keep myself and my airplane out of harms's way.

By the way, looks like you're not familiar with airports in the NY area.

PIT = Pittsburg.
BWI=Baltimore.
MDT=Harrisburg, PA
ABE=Allentown, PA
BDL=Windor Locks, CT

None of these are halfway between LAX and NY...with the exception of PIT which is near the filed route according to Flightaware.com.

Nope not anti-AA comments...just 15,000 hours worth of experience. I know you guys are too proud to admit that CRM with Air Traffic Controller was totally thrown in the trash. Pretty arrogant to tell a traffic controller that is trying to keep you away from the 22R downwind, VFR Banner tower alley, and CAMRN arrival corridor to go pound sound.

When you want to post something intelligent and not flame bait...I'll be waiting. Until then, give it a rest.
FF

 

Well if fuel wasn't the issue, what was...exceeding max demonstrated crosswind. Tell me Part 1 of your 767 AOM has a max limitation, not demonstrated crosswind value of 29 knots steady state. I have heard it has a clause that gusts over 29 knots are unacceptable, but not a limitation of 29 knots...give me page and chapter...

Delta landed on 22R right after that with winds 310 @21.

Typical NY style ? I've flown out of all three NY for the last 20 years and never had better ATC service. The local controller is told by the NY Tracon TMU what configuration his runways will be in. This is influenced by the airlines, they don't want to delay flights because arrivals rates are cut in half due to single runway configuration...SO AA73, who is intimidating who ?

I would A) divert to another airport

Oh, but you say you would divert, but when I mention the same thing, you say it's an anti-AA statement...hypocrite. Another useless, chest beating post by you...surprising but again you know it's true.

Maybe this kind of attitude is why controllers give you a hard time.

 

The PIC has every right in the world to declare an emergency, the buck stops with him, no questions asked. When he is asked to submit a report the last statement is usually, "this course of action was deemed safe or safer than any other.

First off, what was the emergency ? AA2 could not land into the wind, so he basically cancelled IFR services and descended to 600 feet on a 120 heading then climbed back up to 1200 feet on a 303 heading. Does this sound like the safest path...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt AA73, convince me you would have done the same thing over Long Beach.

I like the grow a pair comment...I guess that means if you don't get the clearance you like because you are the Nordstrom Pilots of the Sky, then just tell the controller to F-Off.

Unbelievable..even from you.

FF

 

Fli,

29 knots is not the limit at brown. Max demonstrated is 30. The next line says it is not limiting on a dry rwy with both engines operating.

 

Wow Fli struck a nerve huh? Only you would turn this into a Nordstrom/Kmart thing, nice to see you're consistent.

The crosswinds exceeded the aircraft limitation. Most pilots I know would proceed on to JFK and attempt to use a different runway before diverting. That's what these guys did. When the controller wouldn't give them another runway unless they declared an emergency, that's exactly what they did. But then again, most controllers wouldn't be using a runway that has crosswinds out of limits. Who cares if Delta landed behind them safely? So did the Learjet in DFW in 1985 right before Delta 191 that hit windshear.

But hey, you've got 15,000 hours and are so experienced, this stuff couldn't possibly happen to you.

 

Most pilots would proceed to their destination and attempt to use a different runway. In doing so, I think that most pilots would probably accept vectors around the pattern again too.

If this crew had enough fuel to get resequenced into the flow for 31R then forcing the issue wasn't out of line... deviating from a clearance and potentially causing a significant loss of separation was out of line.

 

You sure that's a aircraft limit vice AA limit? Never flown the -200, but it's not the limit on a -300.