TWA Flight 800 Findings
#131
With The Resistance
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,191
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J67wKh...5J3iWnb2IXct-x
Flouride
I always get a real chuckle out of the conspiracy types, they don't really understand gov, there is no need to conspire they get a free pass. There is nothing to be gained from hiding the truth and much more to be gained from an ignorant majority willing to hand it all over to central planning.
Flouride didn't wreck civilization, but communists did waste more than 100 million human lives "fixing" things for their loyal subjects.
They didn't piddle around with one man or three thousand they were after the real prize.
The real humanitarian crimes are committed in the open with major public consent.
You might say the public conspires against itself without ever understanding why.
Flouride
I always get a real chuckle out of the conspiracy types, they don't really understand gov, there is no need to conspire they get a free pass. There is nothing to be gained from hiding the truth and much more to be gained from an ignorant majority willing to hand it all over to central planning.
Flouride didn't wreck civilization, but communists did waste more than 100 million human lives "fixing" things for their loyal subjects.
They didn't piddle around with one man or three thousand they were after the real prize.
The real humanitarian crimes are committed in the open with major public consent.
You might say the public conspires against itself without ever understanding why.
#132
With The Resistance
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,191
Likes: 0
From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Why are conspiracy theories so attractive?
There is not so much of a difference between conspiracy theorists and the rest of us. We are drawn to the idea of conspiracy because it resonates with us; we understand the idea of people being self-interested and not having our best interests at heart, and having hidden motives and getting together to do shady stuff. Conspiracy theories extend upon that and tap into these assumptions and fears we have about the world. But we all have them, that’s why conspiracy theories make sense to us all.
How much can we really trust our own rationality and reason?
Not much at all. Most psychological research shows that we are all very much overly confident when it comes to trusting our own reasoning ability, our own perception, our own memory, all kinds of stuff. We live inside this kind of illusion that our brains concoct for us that we are seeing the world objectively and that we are coming to our beliefs because they are just the most sensible beliefs to have, but all the research shows we have a whole host of biases built into our brains that shape and colour our perception and beliefs about the world constantly without us being aware of it.
What’s the wildest conspiracy theory you have come across?
One of the most kind of colourful and extensive is [that of] David Icke. He says for example that the moon is hollow, that it is an artificial spaceship and the rings of Saturn are a broadcast device beaming mind control waves to the moon which amplifies them and sends them down to Earth.and colours or shapes, distorts our perception of reality so that we are all kind of living inside a hologram. It just goes on and on - he has an answer for absolutely everything. It is fairly implausible, I think it is fair to say. [But] as wild as it sounds it is kind of a hopeful message in a way in that it is saying: “Yes, there is a lot of stuff wrong with the world but we can put our finger on who’s responsible and what’s responsible for it and then we can do something about it.” That is appealing to a lot of people, especially those who don’t feel like they have a lot of control over their lives.
You write that trying to refute conspiracy theories is like nailing jelly to a wall – should we bother?
Most of them are probably pretty harmless but certain conspiracy theories can have tangible consequences, such as deciding whether to vaccinate your children or whether you should take action to prevent climate change. As for strategies that we should use, there really isn’t much research at all gone into that. I think that [debunking] can be actively counter-productive. I talk about confirmation bias and the backfire effect, and what it shows is that even presenting conclusive, compelling evidence that a conspiracy theory is wrong, for people who believe it, it can cause them to believe it even more strongly.
Why are events like the assassination of JFK such hotbeds for conspiracy theories?
We are all susceptible to the proportionality bias where we think that when something big happens, something big must have caused it. So it seems sort of intuitively implausible that just one strange loner, Lee Harvey Oswald, could just wake up one day and kill one of the most important people in the world, and shape the course of history. Events like the 9/11 attacks, these huge world-changing events, it makes sense why they produce some of the most popular and enduring theories when you think about it in terms of this proportionality bias that we are all susceptible to.
Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe in Conspiracy Theories by Rob Brotherton is published by Bloomsbury Sigma on 19 November, priced £16.99
There is not so much of a difference between conspiracy theorists and the rest of us. We are drawn to the idea of conspiracy because it resonates with us; we understand the idea of people being self-interested and not having our best interests at heart, and having hidden motives and getting together to do shady stuff. Conspiracy theories extend upon that and tap into these assumptions and fears we have about the world. But we all have them, that’s why conspiracy theories make sense to us all.
How much can we really trust our own rationality and reason?
Not much at all. Most psychological research shows that we are all very much overly confident when it comes to trusting our own reasoning ability, our own perception, our own memory, all kinds of stuff. We live inside this kind of illusion that our brains concoct for us that we are seeing the world objectively and that we are coming to our beliefs because they are just the most sensible beliefs to have, but all the research shows we have a whole host of biases built into our brains that shape and colour our perception and beliefs about the world constantly without us being aware of it.
What’s the wildest conspiracy theory you have come across?
One of the most kind of colourful and extensive is [that of] David Icke. He says for example that the moon is hollow, that it is an artificial spaceship and the rings of Saturn are a broadcast device beaming mind control waves to the moon which amplifies them and sends them down to Earth.and colours or shapes, distorts our perception of reality so that we are all kind of living inside a hologram. It just goes on and on - he has an answer for absolutely everything. It is fairly implausible, I think it is fair to say. [But] as wild as it sounds it is kind of a hopeful message in a way in that it is saying: “Yes, there is a lot of stuff wrong with the world but we can put our finger on who’s responsible and what’s responsible for it and then we can do something about it.” That is appealing to a lot of people, especially those who don’t feel like they have a lot of control over their lives.
You write that trying to refute conspiracy theories is like nailing jelly to a wall – should we bother?
Most of them are probably pretty harmless but certain conspiracy theories can have tangible consequences, such as deciding whether to vaccinate your children or whether you should take action to prevent climate change. As for strategies that we should use, there really isn’t much research at all gone into that. I think that [debunking] can be actively counter-productive. I talk about confirmation bias and the backfire effect, and what it shows is that even presenting conclusive, compelling evidence that a conspiracy theory is wrong, for people who believe it, it can cause them to believe it even more strongly.
Why are events like the assassination of JFK such hotbeds for conspiracy theories?
We are all susceptible to the proportionality bias where we think that when something big happens, something big must have caused it. So it seems sort of intuitively implausible that just one strange loner, Lee Harvey Oswald, could just wake up one day and kill one of the most important people in the world, and shape the course of history. Events like the 9/11 attacks, these huge world-changing events, it makes sense why they produce some of the most popular and enduring theories when you think about it in terms of this proportionality bias that we are all susceptible to.
Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe in Conspiracy Theories by Rob Brotherton is published by Bloomsbury Sigma on 19 November, priced £16.99
#134
^^ +1.
True missile-guidance systems are NOT easy to make. Radio-control model? Sure...but not realistic for the speed of a weapon, or the target.....not to mention radio-range.
If you knew the difficulties of getting a modern missile to track, guide, and hit a target, you'd know this is preposterous.
Can MANPADS be smuggled in? Obviously. But they are limited in envelope, and they leave distinct evidence in the wreckage, yes, even if it crashes in water.
Jet fuel for propulsion? How big is the engine? Liquid fueled rocket? Requires an oxidizer.
For someone without the technical background, your theory can sound reasonable. But the science isn't there.
True missile-guidance systems are NOT easy to make. Radio-control model? Sure...but not realistic for the speed of a weapon, or the target.....not to mention radio-range.
If you knew the difficulties of getting a modern missile to track, guide, and hit a target, you'd know this is preposterous.
Can MANPADS be smuggled in? Obviously. But they are limited in envelope, and they leave distinct evidence in the wreckage, yes, even if it crashes in water.
Jet fuel for propulsion? How big is the engine? Liquid fueled rocket? Requires an oxidizer.
For someone without the technical background, your theory can sound reasonable. But the science isn't there.
#135
Ah yes. The great wisdom put forth in another TWA 800 documentary .
Conspiracy theories (WAG's) are wonderfully loaded with speculation, guessing, and conjecture and they do not have to be based on known facts nor even common sense.
Conspiracy theories (WAG's) are wonderfully loaded with speculation, guessing, and conjecture and they do not have to be based on known facts nor even common sense.
#136
The last line of data from the flight data recorder shows an instantaneous drop in altitude of 4,000 feet, a decrease in airspeed of 200 knots, and an angle of attack that goes from plus three degrees to plus 107 degrees. This line was later deleted from the final report as "unreliable" but is available in earlier released data. It sounds a whole lot like a pressure wave from an external explosion to me.
A pressure wave that big would have required a huge blast that would have been seen by witnesses, as well as Infrared satellites.
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
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Then the NTSB should have regarded the data as part of the accident flight. But they didn't. The engine data for the left side also shows some squirrely readings on the last line.
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
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To be specific the NTSB said the last line of data was from an earlier flight that had not been overwritten even though the time stamp was in synch with the rest of the data for the accident flight. Which raises the question of how can you have the aircraft at 10,000 feet with an airspeed of 108 knots and an AOA of 107 degrees on an earlier flight?
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 281
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Dude, I have worked with the NTSB also. Why don't you answer the question, Dude? How can you have the aircraft at 10,000 feet with an airspeed of 108 knots and an AOA of 107 degrees on an earlier flight?
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