UAL T38 Phlyer

Big difference from a light General Aviation aircraft hitting the water at 150 knots, and a large jet if it hits at high speed.

Swissair 111 hit the water at 450 knots+. There wasn't much left. However, they knew he was orbiting to burn fuel weight down...they had a good idea where he was, and where to look.

In general, most pieces of airplanes don't float. Fiberglass/composite pieces might...if broken free from major structures.

Usually the initial signs are pieces of insulation, foam, seat cushion items, and personal items, such as rubber-soled shoes that will float.

AF 447 had floating debris found after some days...but they impacted the water at low-speed.

I fear this is more likely a steep high-speed impact (confining the debris to a very small area), or a high-altitude severe breakup, which would leave a larger area, but with lower density.

Either way, it is not easy to find an airplane in the ocean.

Many years ago (1976?) I saw a Nova special debunking the Bermuda triangle. The editor of Aviation Week showed a pile of accident investigations showing light general aviation planes that had disappeared in the "Bermuda triangle" in the last 10 years. It was substantial; maybe 1000 airplanes.

Then, he showed a list of planes that had disappeared over the continental US in the same period. The stack was easily 10 times as large.

He said "These planes are sitting on dry land and we can't find them....is it any wonder we can't find airplanes at the bottom of the ocean?" It was a startling realization for me.

Eventually, something will be found. Hopefully enough will be found to determine a cause.

All we can do for now is honor the dead, and offer condolences to the grieving.

80ktsClamp

If it's underwater, the signal would almost certainly be blocked.

ClutchCargo

That's amazing! 1000 planes disappeared in 10 years? That's 100 planes a year!? And then 10X that amount disappeared in the CONUS over the same period!!!

I'm quitting flying. This business is way too dangerous.

Regards,
Clutch

UAL T38 Phlyer

Good catch. Sorry for exact details; it was nearly four decades ago. Point being, there were far more aircraft lost over land which could not be found, compared to the ocean, where for all practical purposes, they disappear from view.

MrDK

Now I am confused.
It appears that Malaysia Airlines group chief executive officer Ahmad Jauhari Yahya said the aircraft was equipped with ACARS

"Ahmad Jauhari said the aircraft was delivered to MAS in 2002 and have since recorded 53,465.21 hours with a total of 7,525 cycles. He said all MAS aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called the Aircraft Communication Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), which transmits data automatically."

MH370 underwent maintenance 10 days before disappearance - Channel NewsAsia

bcpilot

Saw this posted yesterday in the international business times uk...


Leaving Facebook...



The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

The sister of one of the Chinese passengers on board the vanished flight rang his phone live on TV, the Mirror reports.

"This morning, around 11:40 [am], I called my older brother's number twice, and I got the ringing tone," said Bian Liangwei. At 2pm, she called again on air and heard it ringing once more.

"If I could get through, the police could locate the position, and there's a chance he could still be alive" she said. The number has now been passed on to Malaysia Airlines and the Chinese police.

A man from Beijing also called his missing brother on the plane, and reported to the airlines that the phone connected three times and rang before appearing to hang up, according to Shanghai Daily. Media reports claim that the brother had called the number in the presence of reporters before informing the airline.

The Straits Times reported that many of the family members told MAS commercial director Hugh Dunleavy that the commuters' mobile phones were ringing but they were not picked up.

Dunleavy replied that MAS was calling the mobile phones of the crew members as well, which were ringing, and that he had given the numbers to Chinese investigators.

Relatives of the passengers are urging the authorities to search for the location of phones that rang using the Global Positioning System.

However, at a press conference in Beijing, MAS spokesman Ignatius Ong said one of the numbers that had been passed on to the airline's command office in Kuala Lumpur did not receive an answer.

"I myself have called the number five times while the airline's command centre also called the number. We got no answering tone," said Ong.

A phone company in Singapore that was investigating this number said it was out of credit.

Families seek information

According to China.org.cn, 19 families have signed a joint statement saying that their family members' cell phones connected, but the calls hung up. The relatives have asked Malaysia Airlines to reveal any information they might be hiding, seeking an explanation for the eerie phone connections. The relatives have complained that the Malaysina Airlines is not responding as actively as it should.

Angry family members also threw water bottles at an MAS spokesman and threatened to protest in front of the Malaysian embassy in China if the airlines did not "disclose" the "truth".

satpak77

News is now reporting that identities of both travelers using the
Stolen passports have been determined and no indications of
Terrorism. Of course many on this thread to include me have already been
Saying that

Toasty

If the aircraft exceeds normal parameters, how long does it take for ACARS to transmit the message to the airline? Does it push the message straight away or at scheduled intervals? The former would seem more logical.

I saw some of the 'experts' on TV saying that the aircraft was in an area of no ground station coverage, so ACARS couldn't relay the messages at that time. However, that isn't correct as ACARS can transmit data over HF or satcom. At least it does with the outfit I fly for.

evamodel00

that is creepy. Hi-jacked, diverted, and being held hostage??

rickair7777

Different systems may handle roaming differently. It may attempt to contact the phone via it's last know cell, and may generate a ring-tone while it's doing that. The ring tone doesn't always mean the phone is ringing, it may just mean the system is looking for a phone that never "checked out" of a cell.

If you turn your phone off, it should check out and the system would know it was off until it checked back in. But if the phone was left on for TO and just flew out of range, the cell at the airport might assume it's still there.

I wouldn't read ANYTHING into this until authorities do some forensics on what exactly the cell system was doing.