We have been lucky at Spirit. The fact that scheduling doesn't know our contract does not mean the we can't be involuntarily junior manned. Section 25.J.4 says "The company may only attempt to junior assign a pilot by calling him on his contact number(s). The company is prohibited from involuntarily junior assigning the pilot through base operations, dispatch, flight control, phone patch to an aircraft, or on a company layover. A pilot may not be given an involuntary junior assignment when crew scheduling has contacted the pilot for a purpose other that junior assigning. A pilot will not be junior assigned solely because he has contacted crew scheduling regarding routing inquiries."

This is one time where weak wording works in our favor. The contract spells out how they can't do it, and leaves how you can be JRM'ed between the lines.

So we can be involuntarily JRMed, but only if we pick up our phone when they call. This has actually happened to me (long story). I tried the naah, I can't, and they said too bad you're going. I think with the amount of people begging for them, scheduling doesn't have a problem filling them, so they don't often have to resort to involuntarily JRM. Plus all the ways previously mentioned to avoid them if you don't want one, makes this company's JRM policy seem optional.

For new guys coming into the airlines or guys like me looking to make the jump from 135 to 121; read this post. You have to do what works for your life, situation, location... Ect. A dream job for someone else may not make you happy. I have been in the industry for 17 years now and seen most sides of commercial aviation, every path has positives and negatives. I still smile at every takeoff clearance so as long as I am still being paid enough to support my family with a schedule that allows me to see them I am happy. 80% of us have GREAT jobs, look around at the airport and realize all the other jobs out there we could be doing. Keep loving it as long as you can keep that first class medical!

As far as I've been told, the general concesus is that the last CA has already been hired at both places. Not good with a relatively young pilot group.

Guys getting on now at best will be junior CA or senior FOs unless more orders are announced. That's why mins have been dropped I guess at least for Spirit.

Some said Spirit wants to be at 300 though.

Wouldn't matter if we had respectable Rates for F/Os.

I'm a 4th year CA and make less than a 2nd year UAL F/O.

How's that for depressing. Let's hope our contract Comes sooner rather than later. I've never been a CA before so makes the job kind of exciting again but I'd rather be an F/O, lol. Better schedule and less responsibility. Problem is you currently HAVE TO UPGRADE AT both NKS & F9 to make any money

Between the two, I'd look at schedules as well. Doesn't Spirit have four days guaranteed between trips? The schedules at Frontier are bad and getting worse.

I've seen some strange redeye schedules on frontier but don't you get like 15 to 18 off a month even under junior schedules?

No less than four days off between work blocks. Work blocks can be up to six days long. This includes reserve lines as well.

Window Seat, your posts make every one of us look like douche bags. If it wasn't Spirit or Frontier, it would be some other start up like skybus "flooding the market" with cheap seats. There is a never ending supply of people who, for some reason, want to own an airline. If there was a capacity void out there, someone is going to fill it.

We are all the same type of people, doing the same type of job. The guys at the LLC's and ULCC's aren't your enemy. They are your colleagues, doing the same thing you're doing. Working for a living so they can provide for their family. You are no better than them because you work for Delta. Don't ever forget that.

I just realized that this post was 7 months ago, oh well, it still applies.

Did you get the 10 hours of required rest before the duty start of your assignment prescribed by 117? Or was this pre-117?

Let me make this simple for all of you:
1) At Spirit you get your hotel paid for during training. At Frontier you do not!
2) At Spirit no training contract. At Frontier $24,000 training contract for two years!
3) New hire pay at Republic is higher than new higher pay at Frontier!

Get the picture?