Frontier vs. Spirit
07-27-2015 | 08:13 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
You guys need to reread the contract.
JA is for pay purposes. 200%
When scheduling calls, they OFFER JA. You either say yes or you say no. Period. There's no excuses of why you can't. Sorry, can't help today or Naah I'm not interested.
It's nothing like junior assign anywhere else. Been like that for 9 years that I've been here, hasn't changed yet. Only way it changes is if you vote for it to change.
JA is for pay purposes. 200%
When scheduling calls, they OFFER JA. You either say yes or you say no. Period. There's no excuses of why you can't. Sorry, can't help today or Naah I'm not interested.
It's nothing like junior assign anywhere else. Been like that for 9 years that I've been here, hasn't changed yet. Only way it changes is if you vote for it to change.
07-27-2015 | 09:56 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
You guys need to reread the contract.
JA is for pay purposes. 200%
When scheduling calls, they OFFER JA. You either say yes or you say no. Period. There's no excuses of why you can't. Sorry, can't help today or Naah I'm not interested.
It's nothing like junior assign anywhere else. Been like that for 9 years that I've been here, hasn't changed yet. Only way it changes is if you vote for it to change.
JA is for pay purposes. 200%
When scheduling calls, they OFFER JA. You either say yes or you say no. Period. There's no excuses of why you can't. Sorry, can't help today or Naah I'm not interested.
It's nothing like junior assign anywhere else. Been like that for 9 years that I've been here, hasn't changed yet. Only way it changes is if you vote for it to change.
We have been lucky at Spirit. The fact that scheduling doesn't know our contract does not mean the we can't be involuntarily junior manned. Section 25.J.4 says "The company may only attempt to junior assign a pilot by calling him on his contact number(s). The company is prohibited from involuntarily junior assigning the pilot through base operations, dispatch, flight control, phone patch to an aircraft, or on a company layover. A pilot may not be given an involuntary junior assignment when crew scheduling has contacted the pilot for a purpose other that junior assigning. A pilot will not be junior assigned solely because he has contacted crew scheduling regarding routing inquiries."
This is one time where weak wording works in our favor. The contract spells out how they can't do it, and leaves how you can be JRM'ed between the lines.
So we can be involuntarily JRMed, but only if we pick up our phone when they call. This has actually happened to me (long story). I tried the naah, I can't, and they said too bad you're going. I think with the amount of people begging for them, scheduling doesn't have a problem filling them, so they don't often have to resort to involuntarily JRM. Plus all the ways previously mentioned to avoid them if you don't want one, makes this company's JRM policy seem optional.
02-18-2016 | 04:27 AM
#93
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
You don't have a choice to make until you get a job offer(s).
Do your homework on both, try to get at least one and, if you're fortunate enough to be hired by both, make a "pros v cons" chart or flip a coin. With low pay QOL is everything.
Once you get to one of these ULCCs don't get comfortable. Learn as much as you can and have some fun, but if total career earnings and international widebody flying are what you're looking for - keep the applications with the Legacies current, and work your contacts.
The Air Wisconsin pilots were once very happy flying BAE-146s out of Denver for jobs that topped at just north of 100K. They were home almost every night, and had a nice niche carved out for themselves. Some of the Major airline pilots gave them grief, but $100K was enough to live on and they were happy. Nobody's business but theirs. Then UAL filed.
All of a sudden the 146 went away, and commuting to PHL on our red-eye to start work a couple of hours after landing, in a CRJ for $100K (or less), took the polish right off that apple. The #1 pilot from their list jumped to F9 almost immediately.
The moral is: Figure out what's important to you, and go for it. But try and make every stop along the way someplace you'd hang your hat for the rest of your career - in case you have to or decide to.
I've got no answer to your question. It's a matter of personal choice. I came to F9 with plenty of total & jet PIC time, but no 121 time. I figured I'd get that box checked, and go to DAL or Alaska (the only two that appealed to me for my own reasons). I got here just before we announced the Airbus order (then 9/11 & Legacy bankruptcies happened), and was off to the races with a two year upgrade, a bunch of out-of-contract pay raises / bonuses, a PS ride to/from work in my car and a fun group of people to work with. I'm not leaving now - but that's just me.
Good luck & study hard!
Do your homework on both, try to get at least one and, if you're fortunate enough to be hired by both, make a "pros v cons" chart or flip a coin. With low pay QOL is everything.
Once you get to one of these ULCCs don't get comfortable. Learn as much as you can and have some fun, but if total career earnings and international widebody flying are what you're looking for - keep the applications with the Legacies current, and work your contacts.
The Air Wisconsin pilots were once very happy flying BAE-146s out of Denver for jobs that topped at just north of 100K. They were home almost every night, and had a nice niche carved out for themselves. Some of the Major airline pilots gave them grief, but $100K was enough to live on and they were happy. Nobody's business but theirs. Then UAL filed.
All of a sudden the 146 went away, and commuting to PHL on our red-eye to start work a couple of hours after landing, in a CRJ for $100K (or less), took the polish right off that apple. The #1 pilot from their list jumped to F9 almost immediately.
The moral is: Figure out what's important to you, and go for it. But try and make every stop along the way someplace you'd hang your hat for the rest of your career - in case you have to or decide to.
I've got no answer to your question. It's a matter of personal choice. I came to F9 with plenty of total & jet PIC time, but no 121 time. I figured I'd get that box checked, and go to DAL or Alaska (the only two that appealed to me for my own reasons). I got here just before we announced the Airbus order (then 9/11 & Legacy bankruptcies happened), and was off to the races with a two year upgrade, a bunch of out-of-contract pay raises / bonuses, a PS ride to/from work in my car and a fun group of people to work with. I'm not leaving now - but that's just me.
Good luck & study hard!
02-18-2016 | 06:44 AM
#94
2 days off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Embraer Systems Analyst
As far as I've been told, the general concesus is that the last CA has already been hired at both places. Not good with a relatively young pilot group.
Guys getting on now at best will be junior CA or senior FOs unless more orders are announced. That's why mins have been dropped I guess at least for Spirit.
Some said Spirit wants to be at 300 though.
Guys getting on now at best will be junior CA or senior FOs unless more orders are announced. That's why mins have been dropped I guess at least for Spirit.
Some said Spirit wants to be at 300 though.
02-18-2016 | 06:50 AM
#95
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,877
Likes: 199
As far as I've been told, the general concesus is that the last CA has already been hired at both places. Not good with a relatively young pilot group.
Guys getting on now at best will be junior CA or senior FOs unless more orders are announced. That's why mins have been dropped I guess at least for Spirit.
Some said Spirit wants to be at 300 though.
Guys getting on now at best will be junior CA or senior FOs unless more orders are announced. That's why mins have been dropped I guess at least for Spirit.
Some said Spirit wants to be at 300 though.
Wouldn't matter if we had respectable Rates for F/Os.
I'm a 4th year CA and make less than a 2nd year UAL F/O.
How's that for depressing. Let's hope our contract Comes sooner rather than later. I've never been a CA before so makes the job kind of exciting again but I'd rather be an F/O, lol. Better schedule and less responsibility. Problem is you currently HAVE TO UPGRADE AT both NKS & F9 to make any money
02-18-2016 | 07:23 AM
#97
2 days off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Embraer Systems Analyst
I've seen some strange redeye schedules on frontier but don't you get like 15 to 18 off a month even under junior schedules?
02-18-2016 | 07:28 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
From: A320 Left
No less than four days off between work blocks. Work blocks can be up to six days long. This includes reserve lines as well.
02-18-2016 | 07:33 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
Yeah, thats what I think. I'd rather see the growth in the high paying jobs at the legacies than LCC's and ULCC's putting cost pressures on the jobs that are actually desirable. I did the regional thing. It sucks but I think its short sighted to run off to an LCC for ****ty wages. When contact time comes around only willing to negotiate a rate that compares with other LCC's.
We are all the same type of people, doing the same type of job. The guys at the LLC's and ULCC's aren't your enemy. They are your colleagues, doing the same thing you're doing. Working for a living so they can provide for their family. You are no better than them because you work for Delta. Don't ever forget that.
I just realized that this post was 7 months ago, oh well, it still applies.
02-18-2016 | 10:01 AM
#100
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 366
Likes: 37
From: A319/321 FO
So we can be involuntarily JRMed, but only if we pick up our phone when they call. This has actually happened to me (long story). I tried the naah, I can't, and they said too bad you're going. I think with the amount of people begging for them, scheduling doesn't have a problem filling them, so they don't often have to resort to involuntarily JRM. Plus all the ways previously mentioned to avoid them if you don't want one, makes this company's JRM policy seem optional.
Did you get the 10 hours of required rest before the duty start of your assignment prescribed by 117? Or was this pre-117?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
