They provide new hires with hotels now? And training pay is just something here. Everywhere else you are on first year pay.

My contention doesn’t change your personal choice of coming here, as you put value in different things than others might. But my contention would benefit this entire pilot group despite pilots like you who aren’t crazy when making these decisions.

The broader point is this: what does management want? Whatever it is, it’s leverage. If it’s first year pay and hotels, then great, if not, then let’s move on. It’s not personal, it’s business.


Fifteen year pay rate is a disgrace! Why should we wait an extra three years to get to top rate? Make 15 yr rate the new 12, then the 14 the new 11 and so forth as a starting point, then negotiate from there.

There is zero value to the GROUP by increasing new hire pay or getting new hires hotels. That is for recruitment only. We negotiate for those on the property - not for the guys that retired 5 years ago and not for the guys that will be here in 5 years.

I don’t disagree.

Totally disagree. Either we are all in this together or we are independent contractors. We can’t have it both ways. I’m far from a new hire but if they don’t get an improvement, I’m a ‘No’ vote. Too many crusty s at our company vote purely for their own interests. Those ret…s don’t understand what unity is about. Don’t be mad when they (New hires) vote out your A plan for the variable plan.

Unless you're talking about one-time retirement enhancements that only apply to a specific group, everything that gets added in negotiations should ultimately benefit all of us. Adding things that are a one-time benefit for new-hires is actually the only way to likely carve out a group and have nobody currently on the list ever see any benefit. It's just fact.

I am neither a new-hire, nor am I anywhere near retirement.

Again:

15th year pay happens over and over and over (including for most every new-hire).

First year pay happens once.

it's not an either or proposition. every pilot on this property should make scale wages. No employee should have to subsidize this company while in training it was BS when you did it it was BS when I did it and it will be BS until its corrected and it's a hard no vote for me until it is. Don't give a @$% how high they make 15 year pay wrong is wrong and I aint cosigning anything just cause something else benefits me more.

The rest of you do whatever you like. They know just what levers to pull to get that 57%

One benefits some, the other benefits EVERYONE. If we don't hire for years, which has happened many times, we will have wasted our time and capital negotiating for something that nobody gets and that costs the company $0.00. Why is that so hard to understand?

Finally someone that gets it! I'm light years ahead of the new hires but can't imagine leaving them behind anymore than I would a jumpseater.

It's not a waste to make sure the least of us have what other companies have. It's not as if this is an either or. There is plenty of leverage we have for all parties.

Then get them the best CAREER earnings in the industry. That's how you can help them.

or

Get them an extra $50/hr for a year. I know which one I'd rather have.