See... this is what I mean when I say this thread is morphing into Flightinfo.com. All I can glean from 744's post is that he agrees with 742 and wants to add an important point to what was said. No where in the post can I detect a personal attack. Rational discussion between professionals is absolutely a necessity. Pitching mud at each other benefits no one but those on the other side of the negotiating table.

Sorry, I did not mean you specifically...I meant a generic "you" and that includes me!! I hold myself accountable for following the CBA...(generic) you should as well...it is high time to do that.

Ok, I'm done with my rants...thanks for listening. Now, please let us all get back to a discussion that is the intent of this thread. If we want to talk about other things, please let us start another thread on this site, or move it to our private site.

Thanks.

And there are scheduled 121 carriers that have historically used extensions as a staffing tool cover their lack of proper staffing. You know, to cover a dedicated/known months in advance flight schedule. If it's in a CBA, GUARANTEED a management is going to use/exploit the language.

Doesn't matter if it's Atlas, a legacy, or Joe Sh1t the Ragman's flying service.

Any rumors or thoughts on upcoming classes for us poolies? A call from Atlas for a class date would be the best Christmas present ever...

Most definitely!

Hang in there, guys, and gals, in the pool...If you are still available when they call, it'll be worth the wait...

In the mean time, don't rule out other prospects out there...lots of others are interviewing, hiring, and forming classes.

Best wishes to you all...hope to see you here soon.

I use up my GDOs, which will protect you for 1/3 of the year. And yet, many of us never use a single one. And so far, considering the insane amount of 747 open time we've seen this 4th quarter, they're not depending on extensions yet.

I was simply countering the mantra of.....

"We're an ACMI and NOT a scheduled carrier THEREFORE extensions are a FACT OF LIFE SO DEAL WITH IT!"

.....with the FACT that OTHER carriers (scheduled) can use extension AS WELL.

Here's my point. With scheduled service, passenger or cargo, domestic or international...the flight goes on schedule, regardless of load. The only variables are a mechanical, weather, crew or ATC.

While ACMI has some of the same variables, when you add in the customer control of the aircraft, that skews the equation. Departure may now be delayed for a mechanical or weather...which in some places may be longer for a mechanical (no readily available parts inventory), weather (more severe in some regions of the world), load (customer may want to delay a day to add production from a delayed product line).

All that affects the delay and the crew exension. If the delay is in say, Mumbai...and it will result in the crew extending, there are two options. Hold the crew in place and pay for the extension...or rotate the crew out commercially and a fresh crew in.

The answer to #1 is easy and restarts the aircraft rotation quicker and recovers it faster to the advantage of the crew on the ground and the other crews involved downstream for many days.

Option 2 is more problematic. First is the crew recovery cost (flights out back to the states). Second is positioning of a new crew from the states to, in this case, Mumbai. Minimum of 48 hours to position...now add in required crew rest before operating.

The snowball starts. Downline crews are now further delayed and now need to go home and be replaced by other crews who have to do the same reposition to operate and rest before operating. The schedule decays further to the point of total collapse.

And in between are the ****ed off customers who look for other options.

Like I said, this isn't a simple black or white matter. Anyone here who thinks this hasn't been dissected many times before doesn't know the depths that is has. As to "other" carriers who do it...ask yourself why, if they have it figured out, they aren't doing better than they are?

Because they haven't. And unless you are running a scheduled cargo service with dedicated loads (DHL, UPS, FedEx), you are married to a schedule that must run, regardless of cost and regardless of whether you are hauling boxes or sailboat fuel.

Extensions because schedulers are lazy and don't want to do their job properly need to be resolved. That happens when their mistakes create economic pain for their cost centers and they have to be explained. If extensions are for customer need, maintenance and weather; they are a fact of life. If people can't handle that, they are in the wrong business and at the wrong airline.

744 is right. Know your contract, fly your contract. It's not like that hasn't been said here for many years.

Back to hiring. Expect hiring in 2014 to be split between the 747 and 767 until the 767 seat locks are up. Not sure of the actual date, but later in 2014 new hires should expect 767 almost exclusively.