I'm not [no profanity please] about the pay, that we all knew coming in the door. Nor am I upset with our union in any way. I think they are doing a good job so far.

First year sucks, period. I'm just venting.

P.B.,
If you know this to be fact, that they aren't addressing the no hotels for new hires during training, then I stand corrected. Your post sounded like an assumption, and I reacted to that. Many people post unsubstantiated options on here, without bothering to even try to look up the facts, and it irks me. I will have to look into this. I will read the TA (whenever we get one), in its entirety in order to assess how close we are to something aggreable, but there are many issues that will garner an instant no vote from me. Not adequately addressing first year compensation is one of them. If we aren't asking for paid hotels during new hire training, then first year pay needs to be at least equal to Delta's. $70/hr won't cut it! $70/hr is already below industry standard, but no hotel during new hire training on top of that isn't even in the same ballpark!

I'm on first year pay. I have a family of 5. I knew full well what I was getting into financially. Do my sub $1000 checks suck? Absolutely. But I'm not complaining about it, because it is what it is. I was asked multiple times by multiple people if I knew and understand how low 1st year pay is. The interviewers, the runners, JP, Stephanie, the whole interview gang had mentioned it at one point or another. There was zero hiding that fact.
I am not disappointed in F9 in the least bit. It was exactly what I expected. I had low expectations for the pay and high expectations for the pilot group. That's what I've gotten so far.
The low pay will be fixed in the new contract. It absolutely has to in order for F9 to survive in the future. The well of applicants is running dry. $$ will be the only way to fix it. Any pilot with half a brain should realize that if they are not hired in 2017, upgrade will simply not happen at F9. If you are going to be a career FO, the pay rates and work rules had better be outstanding. If not, good luck filling those seats in this hiring boom.
For those new hires that are disappointed, chillax. It'll get better. It always does.

Why do you say that? Is it just based on the projected new aircraft deliveries? What's to say, they don't order more new aircraft in the coming years? The ULCC market still may have room to grow. There aren't many US carriers doing international flying in the ULCC model. This is one way the company could continue to grow. I'm not saying it will happen, but I don't know if I would say you'd never upgrade at F9 if you don't get hired in 2017...

I can 100% empathize with your post, as can many others because we lived it too.

Getting beyond the larger F9 debate for a second and strictly focusing on you and your family I would just tell you, it will get better. So it might be worth waiting for a while before you head overseas. I know a 2nd year FO who made 95K in his 2nd year. Yes he flew everyday, and was Denver based, but he did it. I personally couldn't do that, especially with a new Baby (congratulations by the way - you' know you're not a real man until you're a Dad, right? )

Have you considered moving to a base for a while? Renting a small, yet safe place, maybe get rid of one or both car payments? These are some of the things I did so I could be with my family and also make ends meet. Course I know everyone is in a different situation, and I know it's totally wrong that I had to do these things in the first place and are even suggesting them as ideas for you to consider. But again, I'm just trying to parse out the politics of the situation, and focus on the reality of what you're actually facing.

I don't really know much about the overseas stuff. I suppose if you could get nearly an equal amount of time with your wife and new baby as you would here, and do much better financially, it could be a smart move. But if it's a deal where you're worked to the bone and miss the little one's first steps and first words, even if you're making awesome money, then it's just not worth it in my humble opinion - but I see the world through my own little lens too.

We're all just trolls buddy - do whats best for you and yours - I wish you the best of luck, and thanks for sharing your plight. I hope you'll report back with your progress.

Windsor nails it! Do all of you think that the pay is going to stay where it is at? The mediation process is way ahead of schedule. You all knew coming in here what the first year pay was going to be! Do not come here if you cannot make it work.

Now about being ****ed off and morale. You are right that the majority of the group is TOTALLY ****ed off and morale does suck(towards management). For me, I try to keep morale high amongst my crews to the best of my ability. That is all I can do. We all are going to see light at the end of the tunnel. How bright is yet to be determined?

About going overseas, be careful for what you wish for(AirBuz). Is it really worth not seeing your kids grow up? A lot of our pilots went overseas to Vietnam and Asia and I can honestly say that a handful stayed out there. Majority came back. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
All I can say is be patient people. I have been here for a looong time, and our time to be rewarded is around the corner.

I'm interested in that comment as well?

I have to assume that comment was regarding our current growth plans based on the number of aircraft we're projecting in 2022. I'd be very surprised if the ULCC market doesn't continue to grow beyond then, however.

It's a load of horse****. People getting hired now will upgrade in about 4-5 years with current projections, which include not only growth, but attrition, retirements and other factors.

I don't disagree, I was commenting on a post that referenced a post that said if you're not hired this year you'll never upgrade at Frontier. Given our current plans, that's true. But I'll be surprised if the ULCC market doesn't continue to grow.