Originally Posted by DENpilot

It's a load of horse****. People getting hired now will upgrade in about 4-5 years with current projections, which include not only growth, but attrition, retirements and other factors.

Originally Posted by xjtr

Why do you say that? Is it just based on the projected new aircraft deliveries? What's to say, they don't order more new aircraft in the coming years? The ULCC market still may have room to grow. There aren't many US carriers doing international flying in the ULCC model. This is one way the company could continue to grow. I'm not saying it will happen, but I don't know if I would say you'd never upgrade at F9 if you don't get hired in 2017...

Originally Posted by Windsor

Retirements never hit F9 particularly hard.

Originally Posted by Windsor

I've heard 2300-2500 pilots on property. Assuming an upgrade at 55% that means seniority number 1375. Jan 2017 hires are in the 1100 range. By the end of 2017 we will have seniority number 1350 on property. I'm no mathematician, but that's what I came up with.

Originally Posted by SpankysLadder

I don't see Indigo budging one bit until crap hits the fan and they suddenly and financially realize that their stubborn management techniques have put them in a place where they don't have enough pilots to fly all of their new airplanes. It's this new "head in the sand" business school mentality that makes no sense to any of us on the front lines.

Originally Posted by SpankysLadder

I don't see Indigo budging one bit until crap hits the fan and they suddenly and financially realize that their stubborn management techniques have put them in a place where they don't have enough pilots to fly all of their new airplanes. It's this new "head in the sand" business school mentality that makes no sense to any of us on the front lines.

Originally Posted by Smokey23

SWA guy, here. Having just finally come out of four years of mgmt stiff-arming us for a new contract, it pains me to see that you guys also have some died-in-the-wool, anti-union types working against your collective best interests. For us, the union guidance during our negotiations was to wear a dark tie (preferably black!) and the union tie tack. I'm sure most of you who have any time in this business know what a love-affair many of our pilots had with the flag ties since Sept 11th....and I was one of 'em! Sadly, we have our share of A319's ilk on property and it was the same sort of mamby-pamby rationalizing from these guys how they couldn't possibly give up their flag ties: "Passengers love 'em!" "I'm a vet and it's a show of support for them!" and so on.... All are true statements, but NONE are an adequate excuse for not complying with your union's temporary request to provide a visible sign of solidarity until such time as a new contract is ratified. And just like A319, this crowd also parroted the same line that "nobody notices your tie/lanyard/bag tag, etc..." HOG WASH!!!!! Your management wants nothing more than to believe your union does not speak for you....and if enough of your pilots are so misguided/apathetic/afraid or JUST PLAIN ANTI-UNION that they cannot even take the simple step of putting on a lanyard that (I'm guessing here) just showed up in their box one day, well then management's view may just be correct and your negotiating committee will be that much more out-gunned. I promise you, management IS noticing!!!! They are testing your collective resolve and numbers matter!

So if you're not a lanyard guy--time to become one. If you're not already scheduled to fly during your first picket--time to move whatever mountains you must to get your butt to the IP. It WILL make a difference!

Best of luck to you guys/gals!

Originally Posted by DENpilot

Amen.

Someone who doesn't advocate for fair pay, refuses to show solidarity by simply wearing a lanyard, and then pretty much outright admits they are disconnected and don't care about these historic negotiations (see quote, "I come to work, do my job and go home, I never make any waves, and I do everything as my employer asks me to.") does not deserve respect.

I am not advocating for any work action, but in case you haven't noticed, A319, getting ground air hooked up takes an act of God in 99% of our stations. Never mind that when you pull in and wait 5 minutes for the GPU to be hooked up, ramp is mindlessly wandering around your idling engine. If you think the risks outweigh the couple of $$$ of fuel, and making our pax and FAs uncomfortable (as if their job isn't bad enough) is a better alternative than running the APU, then by all means, carry on.

Originally Posted by A319

Wow. I think I must clarify what I mean. I definitely want us to be compensated as best we can be. I certainly want as much money in my pocket as I can get, especially with the company making as much money as it is. I am not "anti-union" by any means, I fully support our unions efforts and our pilot group. My whole point is that wearing a lanyard isn't going to solve any problems. And it certainly isn't anyone's business if I wear a lanyard or not. Also, it's no ones business if I start the APU or single engine taxi, that's my decision. However, I do support our efforts and hope that we do secure a great contract. Although, I don't think we will get a contract that is terrifically better than our peers, I think it will be along the lines of what our peers have now. If I'm wrong, then that's great, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by the outcome of these negotiations. No, I won't be picketing on the 19th, because, just as with the lanyard, I don't think it is really going to help the situation.