I can 100% empathize with your post, as can many others because we lived it too.

Getting beyond the larger F9 debate for a second and strictly focusing on you and your family I would just tell you, it will get better. So it might be worth waiting for a while before you head overseas. I know a 2nd year FO who made 95K in his 2nd year. Yes he flew everyday, and was Denver based, but he did it. I personally couldn't do that, especially with a new Baby (congratulations by the way - you' know you're not a real man until you're a Dad, right? )

Have you considered moving to a base for a while? Renting a small, yet safe place, maybe get rid of one or both car payments? These are some of the things I did so I could be with my family and also make ends meet. Course I know everyone is in a different situation, and I know it's totally wrong that I had to do these things in the first place and are even suggesting them as ideas for you to consider. But again, I'm just trying to parse out the politics of the situation, and focus on the reality of what you're actually facing.

I don't really know much about the overseas stuff. I suppose if you could get nearly an equal amount of time with your wife and new baby as you would here, and do much better financially, it could be a smart move. But if it's a deal where you're worked to the bone and miss the little one's first steps and first words, even if you're making awesome money, then it's just not worth it in my humble opinion - but I see the world through my own little lens too.

We're all just trolls buddy - do whats best for you and yours - I wish you the best of luck, and thanks for sharing your plight. I hope you'll report back with your progress.

 

Windsor nails it! Do all of you think that the pay is going to stay where it is at? The mediation process is way ahead of schedule. You all knew coming in here what the first year pay was going to be! Do not come here if you cannot make it work.

Now about being ****ed off and morale. You are right that the majority of the group is TOTALLY ****ed off and morale does suck(towards management). For me, I try to keep morale high amongst my crews to the best of my ability. That is all I can do. We all are going to see light at the end of the tunnel. How bright is yet to be determined?

About going overseas, be careful for what you wish for(AirBuz). Is it really worth not seeing your kids grow up? A lot of our pilots went overseas to Vietnam and Asia and I can honestly say that a handful stayed out there. Majority came back. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
All I can say is be patient people. I have been here for a looong time, and our time to be rewarded is around the corner.

 

I'm interested in that comment as well?

 

I have to assume that comment was regarding our current growth plans based on the number of aircraft we're projecting in 2022. I'd be very surprised if the ULCC market doesn't continue to grow beyond then, however.

 

It's a load of horse****. People getting hired now will upgrade in about 4-5 years with current projections, which include not only growth, but attrition, retirements and other factors.

 

I don't disagree, I was commenting on a post that referenced a post that said if you're not hired this year you'll never upgrade at Frontier. Given our current plans, that's true. But I'll be surprised if the ULCC market doesn't continue to grow.

 

4-5? I mean I can see that if we don't open a new base and people stay but opening a new base and FOs bailing I see somewhere between 24 and 30 months for someone hired before June of this year.

Of course if we decide to return all CEO airplanes for NEOs 4-6 is possible but if we keep the newer airplanes it's not possible with the current trends and expectations.

That's all from Ms. Cleo tonight

 

My stance on the upgrades at F9 are purely based on our planned growth. Given the information available, that is my hypothesis. I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know what's going to happen in the future, but as it stands today, those hired after 2017 will have a very long time before upgrade. Retirements never hit F9 particularly hard. There is no fast track to upgrade after the planned aircraft come on property. Is that subject to change? Absolutely, but I wouldn't plan on coming to F9 in 2018 with any hopes of a quick upgrade based on current plans.

I've heard 2300-2500 pilots on property. Assuming an upgrade at 55% that means seniority number 1375. Jan 2017 hires are in the 1100 range. By the end of 2017 we will have seniority number 1350 on property. I'm no mathematician, but that's what I came up with.

 

That's all from Ms. Cleo tonight[/QUOTE]

You know Ms. Cleo died last year right?

 

Retirements at F9

2017 - 9
2018 - 9
2019 - 12
2020 - 12
2021 - 11
2022 - 12
2022 - 17
2023 - 17
2024 - 17
2025 - 30
2026 - 32
2027 - 24
2028 - 37
2029 - 34
2030 - 37