That's right! We only want kool aid drinkers that work for half of industry standard pay and benefits! Get with it!

 

The problem is, if you are not Management (which I find very hard to believe), your sentiments echo sentiments I have heard from our management! Literally, word for word! You brought up the idea of peers; that we will never achieve more than our peers. To be clear, I believe our peers are every US carrier that operates the A320 series of aircraft. Period! What we do, as pilots, is what United does, is what Delta does, is what every US carrier does in an A320 series.

Management would like you to believe that only the lowest paid carriers are our "peers". That we are some sort of "lower tier" of pilot, based on our current wages. How convenient, and how insulting! Concessions were taken in attempts to keep the company alive (right or wrong), and now they denigrate us based on our wages!

The truth is, most of the lower paid carriers are lower paid, because they are a contract cycle, or even two contract cycles behind the Legacy carriers. Most are actively negotiating better contracts as we speak. Their current pay scales are extremely outdated, and, in many cases, were modeled after prevailing LEGACY CARRIER wages who were in a CONCESSIONARY and BANKRUPTCY environment, at the time. The Legacies have since begun to dig themselves out of the bankruptcy-era, but many other carriers, including Frontier, are still working on it.

This is not a concessionary or bankruptcy environment. We should not be modeling our wages on bankruptcy-era wages of more than a decade ago, which is exactly what we would be doing if we achieved nothing better than (what our management considers) our "peers", who, themselves, are trying to dig themselves out of bankruptcy-era wages.

 

^^^^^^ Amen!!! ^^^^^^

SWA used to have the highest paid 737 pilots, who at the time, was the low cost airline.

There was a period of time during my time at F9 (I believe, someone correct me if I am wrong) that Frontier was the highest paid A320 operator in the US (granted, many of the other A320 operators were working under a bankruptcy concession, and Frontier had not yet entered bankruptcy).

Do not let management, or the A319 types we have at Frontier, convince you that you are a 'low-tier' pilot, and your services are worth less than other A320 or 737 operators.

As Southwest pilots proved for so many years, low cost airline does not have to equate to low paid pilot.

 

The company, like all the others, will follow supply vs. demand rules for the most part. If there is an ample supply of people willing to work for these or a slightly higher wage, then they will not change or chance only a little. I doubt there is a pilot working here that will voluntarily pay a higher wage to a worker (say a housekeeper or somebody repairing their roof) than they need to. If you could find someone to do an adequate job for you for $0.05 cheaper, then most of us would. And, Ive found this pilot group does more than an adequate job - in fact, it boggles my mind how people do extra.

The only thing that is going to bring about serious consideration for any raise is self-help. With the RLA, this is the last step and in some cases, isn't even allowed. But, for us and our small size, I think it will be.

So, hopefully, the union will negotiate in good faith with the company, contunue the dog and pony show and show the mediator that we are doing our part. And, hopefully, the mediator will get us released and we can strike. The company will lose millions and be forced to come to the table. And then, our union can present industry leading wages and work rules and we get something more to our liking.

I don't see anything else helping us. This is what it's going to take. All this other nonsense about lanyards and info strikes (while important for us as a group as well as public perception) mean very little to the company.

So, I will participate in anything and everything my union suggests to the max extent but don't have a hope of any of that having any bearing on the company whatsoever. I will do my job to the letter of the contract and that's it. I will file grievances if needed and I will not answer any company calls. I will pick up open time only if it serves my own personal purpose (which is usually a trade for a higher credit or a trip in different days). But most importantly, I will sit back and wait for the strike time to occur and not bicker about other people actions and opinions regardless of how silly they may be to me. I truly believe the majority of people here all agree with me about our wages, etc and will vote accordingly.

And I think if you're an F9 pilot, you should too.

 

All this talk of strike - what happens to first year FOs on probation? I'm guessing they participate, get fired, and then the union would renegotiate their rehiring upon what, end of strike or new contract? And how does that look in the future as far as the "have you ever been terminated" questions?

 

I agree with most of what you post, believe it or not.

You call lanyards and info strikes non-sense, but then go on to say how they are important for unity building and public perception. I agree with the second part of your personal disagreement.

And, there are pilots among us who hold opinions that are very much against our self interest, as a pilot group. Don't underestimate our management's will to divide and conquer, as well as lower expectations. It's something they are actively doing. They aren't passively waiting around for strike day, so why should we? It doesn't hurt to share opinions with pilots who are saying and doing things that are against our self-interest. I think it makes our pilot group stronger, and more unified. We need a unified front in these negotiations.

A recent example is Delta's most current contract. They had numerous pilots, as well as ALPA, trying to sell a contract to the pilot group that was against the groups best interests. There were pilots who were looking after only their own interests, bringing up the "time value of money", and how they would be parked by the NMB, if they didn't sign an agreement laden with concessions. It wasn't till a unified effort to turn down the concession-laden contract, that their pilot group came together and signed something much better.

 

Return to work agreements, historically, include a clause to bring probationary FOs back on property after being fired. Not sure how that would go in an interview. I would think if there were even one pilot on the interview panel, it would immediately become a non-issue. Crossing a picket line would be much worse for a career, though.

 

Just trying to keep my friends and family from laughing at me when I mention Frontier.

 

But they don't laugh about trans states?

 

This is exactly the attitude we need to bring unity and push us through to a standard contract. Regardless of dracir's opinion of union tactics, this guy/gal still choses to participate.

A part of our pilot group doesn't believe in lanyards and informational pickets, they think it is a placebo effect, but that is ok. You don't have to believe in magic, just show up to the magic show. ALPA doesn't have their pilot groups perform these acts for their own amusement, it is all part of an overall strategy to unify our group; we need you to wear the lanyard, we need you to show up for the informational picket.

From my memory, Delta, Southwest, and Hawaiian are three pilot groups that PARTICIPATED in informational pickets, lanyards, votes of no confidence, etc. All three recently signed competitive industry standard (above industry average) contracts.

We're in an aggressive mediation schedule with a favorable mediator in a very favorable airline business environment. Every pilot group is fighting for and receiving better contracts. I saw just this morning that AAL has reached out to APA to start a conversation about mid-contract pay raises (W T F, over?). If you want to say you had part in the contract we will vote on, the time to participate is NOW. Stay engaged by reading the emails, wearing the lanyard, showing up to the picket, and volunteering where you see a need or when our ALPA reps ask. This last bit of negotiations could go fast, don't miss the boat!