IMO, I wouldn't go to a regional with a 9 year flow, unless I had no college degree.

With 800 people retiring plus who ever quits and is fired.
That’s 66 people a month.
I doubt each WO can afford more then 15 captains a month. (Piedmont like 8, PSA like 8-10 and envoy around 15)So that’s 45 max. That leaves about 20 street hires. They are already having shortages and most of the flow is dependent on how many pilots they have. once the flow ramps up it’s gonna slow down or someone’s getting bought.

Do psa and piedmont have language for mgmt to meter the flow like envoy?

Piedmont does not.

PSA does not.

PSA management could "delay" a flow, but had to make it up by the end of the year. Only happened for 2 months, about 2 years ago. A couple fewer pilots flowed in the summer months, but they extras flowed during the fall. They haven't done it since and we were "whole" for the year in flows.

In 9 years the hiring wave will mostly be over. This is why the previous poster said flow is worthless for someone hiring on today.

So you really think the flow won't be adjusted when the mass retirements really start?

I posted this in another thread in the Envoy forum but figured I’d repost it here for relevance...
Some things to consider regarding the flow...

1) Even taking an as yet unknown event into account (major war, major economic troubles etc) the facts are that mainline AA has massive retirement gaps to fill and it isn’t even clear yet how they are going to accomplish this by the early/mid 2020’s. Even if they decide to park some planes, chances are they wouldn’t have much of a need to furlough because of retirements. Any hiccups in these regards won’t really affect time to flow by any drastic amount in my opinion.

2) There will be massive amounts of turnover and attrition going forward in addition to those above you who are flowing. We haven’t even really begun seeing the real wave of retirements just yet and things are already changing rapidly (mostly for the better) in the regional industry. The flood gates will be wide open at the legacies within the next couple years. Having a 4 year degree might not even matter that much to them as everyone is in a race to hire pilots (don’t quote me on the degree part it’s just a hunch I have looking at the numbers). And this doesn’t even include any potential expansion plans at the legacies. And let’s not forget FedEx, UPS, Southwest (who recently revised UP their need for pilots due to early retirements), the LCCs who have a ton of expansion plans etc. And speaking of LCCs, once Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue get new contracts it will create a whole entire new round of “raising the bar” industry-wide and regionals will be forced to further compete for an ever-dwindling pilot supply.

I’m actually not entirely sure what will end up happening in these regards. The president of the WO I worked at has said that AA looked into absorbing the WOs a couple of years back but that, “it didn’t make sense financially”. Well that was a long while back (by airline industry standards) and much has already changed since then. There is in fact a financial tipping point to where it makes more sense bringing the WO feed in-house. We aren’t there yet, but in 2-3 years who knows? If you would have told me 2-3 years ago that regionals would be looking at rates like what Endeavor is enjoying I would have laughed at you. But it’s the new reality for them and likely will be for the WOs by mid to late 2018.

Some other relatively minor things to think about if you are considering a WO for the flow:

1) Legislative changes that may have an effect on the retirement age. I personally think that there will be an increased retirement age within the next 2-5 years. There is already a gap for most pilots when it comes to retiring at 65 and claiming Social Security benefits. That gap will only continue to widen in the coming years. That combined with an overall average lifespan increase as American’s live longer due to healthcare advances (2017 not included) AND the shortage of pilots wanting to work at regionals together with the looming massive retirements at mainline and I think raising the retirement age will be a foregone conclusion. The thing to remember about this is that it wouldn’t just affect you at an AA WO regional, but anywhere you’re at in the industry.

2) As time marches on, I believe that the legacy airlines are going to attempt to set up partnerships and more “cradle to grave” pipeline programs. We have already seen the beginnings of this at AA, Delta, and JetBlue and I believe United will likely unveil more programs like this in 2018 (they tend to lag the others in these regards). This will leave some regional airlines, “out in the cold” so to speak. AA and Delta have both said that they want to reduce the number of regional contract carriers flying for them and we are already starting to see the effects of that. I believe we will see more of this over the next couple years. United has already set up preferential hiring programs with certain regionals that it has taken a stake in and I think you will see those regionals continue to grow for United. The regionals I would be cautious of are the Trans State Holdings regionals (GoJet, TSA, and Compass), Mesa etc. I think they stand to lose contracts in the coming years. If you’re choice is between a WO or one of them I think the choice is clear. Which leads me to my next point of consideration...

3) I personally think that the old sage advice of, “pick a regional based on where you live or want to live. DO NOT COMMUTE” is beginning to come to an end to some extent. I realize that many choose a regional based on this. But I think the realities of the legacies beginning to narrow their field of view when it comes to their regional partnerships and the pipeline programs that will be growing in size will certainly serve to make it increasingly difficult to get hired off the street at a legacy if you don’t work for their regional partner. I think the new reality is that pilots should be asking themselves, “What legacy do I want to work for”? “What legacy has the bases, equipment, and flying that I want to do for 20-30 years”? Some will disagree with this but I think it’s becoming more clear that this is where we are all headed. And not to mention the relative ease of commute provided at the AA WOs or even better, the new commuter policy at Endeavor. Contract regionals will never be able to offer incentives like this.

Much will happen in the future that we can not account for right now. Just as much has happened in the recent past that many did not see coming. I think working for an AA WOs is probably one of the best options that a pilot looking to make the leap into the regional world can make right now. And at the very least, look beyond the next 5 years of your career and consider the simple fact that if you work for an AA WO you can still apply off the street and have a decent shot of getting hired almost anywhere else. Pilots at other regionals can not say the same about their chances of getting hired at AA. And if you aren’t at least considering a regional that has some sort of vested partnership or flow/interview program then you are just doing yourself a further disservice. Considering the factors that are relatively quantifiable (flow and attrition) I think that a new hire today can expect to be at mainline in 6-7 years. That’s my “best guess”. Take it for what it is!

Just so anyone looking at a career in 121 can see how volatile it is, not just how quickly prospects change but what the magnitude of those changes are. Absolutely EVERYTHING these posters posted seemed totally reasonable at the time.

FWIW as a May 2016 hire I was scheduled to flow in 4 years and 9 months. Then Covid. I’m no Envoy or flow pusher, and it has much less value now than it did 5 years ago, but those were actual numbers for my time frame.