AIP. - Page 47 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#461

queue , 05-23-2018 01:17 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Nobody is suggesting that if we vote this TA in they will then order the E2.

What we are saying, as I understand it, is that the decision to buy the E2 is possibly already made, and that they asked to have these C rates included and have spread the rumor the C is a "done deal" to get guys to look past the shatty E2 rates thinking the C is coming when it may not be.....

Classic disinformation campaign.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

#462

Bluedriver , 05-24-2018 01:55 AM

The REAL Bluedriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd1200

We have an AIP that few of us saw coming (and the few who thought it was possible in the near-term were widely ridiculed) and now, despite the fact that we don’t understand exactly what factors led the company negotiatiors to agree to this AIP (I think it’s safe to say Baker’s downgrade and the likelihood of a summer implosion were high on the list, but do we really know?), many of those who were most pessimistic about our odds and most willing to accuse the company of doing everything they could to delay an agreement indefinitely have suddenly become quite optimistic about our odds of getting a renegotiated TA in short order and have a ton of confidence in the company negotiatiors to quickly return to the table with some awesome improvements. If you didn’t see this AIP coming, how can you have such a high degree of confidence in your predictive capabilities? If I could go back 30 days and take bets on when we’d get an AIP and what it would contain I think a huge majority of pilots on here would lose a ton of cash. At some point don’t we have to show a little humility and admit that we’re not quite sure why we are where we are now or what exactly is going to happen next? Whether you vote “yes” or “no” I think there has to be some recognition that the economy is volatile and good times don’t last forever. There is some risk in voting either way, and an honest assessment of that risk is part of a well-informed decision.

Taking people's anonymous posts fully at face value during protracted contract negotiations shows a notable lack of situational awareness.

Contracts are achieved through pressure, ideally from many directions. Contracts are NOT achieved by being patient, compliant and quiet little brown star lickers.

#463

Bluedriver , 05-24-2018 01:57 AM

The REAL Bluedriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by queue

Very possible. I hope not, but I trust literally nothing from the puzzle palace.

#464

django , 05-24-2018 03:09 AM

Line Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by queue

BJ's business model relies on shortstaffing and shortchanging. It exploits legal frameworks and psychology.

The legal framework is the FOM, Bluebook, and FSM. It defines how they will exploit you to compensate for the lack of proper staffing.

The psychological framework is "culture", "juicers", and your natural desire to do an excellent job. I previously provided a link to a research paper

source: http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/cha...ialControl.pdf

Juicers are the tools (useful idiots) of this management mechanism of control.

It all relies on your natural ego to want to do a good job. It is deep within each of us. This is not a bad thing - quite the contrary. We should all strive to excel as servant leaders and employees, however, the company is exploiting our good will while not adequately compensating and respecting us.

They have developed a control mechanism whereby they staff workgroups at less than 100%. People want to do a good job so they will jump higher because it is in their nature, in their work ethic, to excel. For those that don't, there are legal mechanisms to pacify and control. Only people at the top benefit with ridiculously high paychecks while the rest of us beg for table scraps.
Let us not be enablers.

Let us not subsidize their exploitative model.

These are not honorable people.

History, logic, and basic negotiation philosophy dictates we should not accept substandard AIPs or contract language.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Not to derail this archetypical pilot thread but...
This is how the military, team sports and herds operate ...

#465

CaptCoolHand , 05-24-2018 03:35 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by django

Not to derail this archetypical pilot thread but...
This is how the military, team sports and herds operate ...

I'm with you, but I stole this from the other site and I think it explains a lot.

[/quote]

EMP: XXXXX

1 PTO
2 VDA
3 VDA
4 VDA
5 RSV
6 RSV
7 RSV
8 RSV
9 VDA
10 VDA
10 JXXXX
11 RSV
12 RSV
13 RSV
14 RSV
15 RSV
16 VDA
17 RSV
18 RSV
19 RSV
20 RSV
21 RSA
21 JXRXX
22
23
24 VDA
25 RSV
26 RSV
27 RSV
28 RSA
29 RSA
29 JXRXX
30 RSV

THIS IS WHY.

[/quote]

The argument was that we could send this back and see better results quickly.

I don't know if it's a legit schedule or not, but I know I've seen similar framework in MCO. I'm assuming this guy is JFK.

#466

hilltopflyer , 05-24-2018 04:03 AM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand

I'm with you, but I stole this from the other site and I think it explains a lot.

EMP: XXXXX

1 PTO
2 VDA
3 VDA
4 VDA
5 RSV
6 RSV
7 RSV
8 RSV
9 VDA
10 VDA
10 JXXXX
11 RSV
12 RSV
13 RSV
14 RSV
15 RSV
16 VDA
17 RSV
18 RSV
19 RSV
20 RSV
21 RSA
21 JXRXX
22
23
24 VDA
25 RSV
26 RSV
27 RSV
28 RSA
29 RSA
29 JXRXX
30 RSV

THIS IS WHY.

[/quote]

The argument was that we could send this back and see better results quickly.

I don't know if it's a legit schedule or not, but I know I've seen similar framework in MCO. I'm assuming this guy is JFK.[/QUOTE]

Guess the guy hates his family...

#467

rvr1800 , 05-24-2018 04:09 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilltopflyer

The argument was that we could send this back and see better results quickly.

I don't know if it's a legit schedule or not, but I know I've seen similar framework in MCO. I'm assuming this guy is JFK.[/QUOTE]

Guess the guy hates his family...[/QUOTE]

He left them three days in there. SMH. Probably the same guy who doesn’t read any union emails, doesn’t wear a lanyard, and didn’t realize we had an AIP until yesterday.

#468

capt707 , 05-24-2018 04:16 AM

Gets Weekends Off

That’s a pretty common schedule for folks that live in base and the *****s that NEED to credit 120 hours every month for whatever reason.

#469

hilltopflyer , 05-24-2018 04:23 AM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt707

That’s a pretty common schedule for folks that live in base and the *****s that NEED to credit 120 hours every month for whatever reason.

And they don't understand that if we had better work rules, pay etc they wouldn't have to do that.

#470

PasserOGas , 05-24-2018 04:55 AM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand

I'm with you, but I stole this from the other site and I think it explains a lot.