AIP.
05-23-2018, 08:51 AM
#452
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Bilbo T Baggins
What does this avg 5hrs/ day mean for red eye turns? Would that now be 10 hours of pay?
05-23-2018, 08:52 AM
#453
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,513
Originally Posted by Softpayman
Yes. 10 hrs + night override + in some cases international override.
Those mco island red eye turns are about to go senior or end up built into other pairings Either way good riddance...
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05-23-2018, 08:58 AM
#454
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
Those mco island red eye turns are about to go senior or end up built into other pairings Either way good riddance...
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
05-23-2018, 08:59 AM
#455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Originally Posted by Softpayman
Yes. 10 hrs + night override + in some cases international override.
I'm not 100% sure but it's industry standard.
05-23-2018, 09:14 AM
#456
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Originally Posted by Hercbubba
That’s a nice thought, but when you say peers, you are looking at SWA, HA, and AK. In a perfect world, we would be compared to all narrow body rates, but in reality, we are compared to airlines.
Whether you or I want to think differently, the company, the mediator and the MEC are going to think of us as a peer to SWA, AK, and HA.
Until we get the global network to support higher rates on narrow body aircraft, we are stuck in a situation where 3 or 4 companies will determine our ticket prices based on competition. AA, Delta, and UAL can set our ticket prices, just as they set AK, and HA. Until we can influence the big 3 and SWA ticket prices, we will be considered a 2nd tier airline. Read the AK contract document from the arbitrator. It explains how they came to that conclusion based on prior negotiated contracts. (All based on AK being smaller than AA, Delta, UAL, and SWA)
Once something is legally published through the court of law, we are going to be held to that standard no matter what, right or wrong.
I’m not going to change your mind, but it doesn’t matter, because the company, mediator, and the MEC have a bar that is now set based on that document. I’m sure they all read it thoroughly too!
Whether you or I want to think differently, the company, the mediator and the MEC are going to think of us as a peer to SWA, AK, and HA.
Until we get the global network to support higher rates on narrow body aircraft, we are stuck in a situation where 3 or 4 companies will determine our ticket prices based on competition. AA, Delta, and UAL can set our ticket prices, just as they set AK, and HA. Until we can influence the big 3 and SWA ticket prices, we will be considered a 2nd tier airline. Read the AK contract document from the arbitrator. It explains how they came to that conclusion based on prior negotiated contracts. (All based on AK being smaller than AA, Delta, UAL, and SWA)
Once something is legally published through the court of law, we are going to be held to that standard no matter what, right or wrong.
I’m not going to change your mind, but it doesn’t matter, because the company, mediator, and the MEC have a bar that is now set based on that document. I’m sure they all read it thoroughly too!
Also, the rest of this post is utter nonsense wrapped up like a legal brief. We are not in court. Precedence does not apply here. We are in negotiations. In negotiations we only get discounted if we AGREE to it. You seem to be in an awfully big hurry to be discounted.
05-23-2018, 11:32 AM
#457
The REAL Bluedriver
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
Fellas
This TA will become the CBA that we build a castle. We can’t afford waiting another 6 months of negotiations which will yield relatively nothing. We need to ink this deal and get ready for negotiations in 3years. Delta, AA and UAL will have new rates and rules and we’ll go forward from there.
If we’re on the block for a sale then we’re going to be protected. Don’t believe the nonsense that as soon as the inks dry that Jblue announces the E2. They’ve made that decision whether or not we vote YES or NO.
The details of the AIP bullets will codify our YES vote. The majority of Junior pilots benefit from this deal. Senior guys don’t too poorly. Hopefully RC and Skins won’t be getting paid vacations to S American resorts, and we can all start filling our 401k’s.
-Bubs
This TA will become the CBA that we build a castle. We can’t afford waiting another 6 months of negotiations which will yield relatively nothing. We need to ink this deal and get ready for negotiations in 3years. Delta, AA and UAL will have new rates and rules and we’ll go forward from there.
If we’re on the block for a sale then we’re going to be protected. Don’t believe the nonsense that as soon as the inks dry that Jblue announces the E2. They’ve made that decision whether or not we vote YES or NO.
The details of the AIP bullets will codify our YES vote. The majority of Junior pilots benefit from this deal. Senior guys don’t too poorly. Hopefully RC and Skins won’t be getting paid vacations to S American resorts, and we can all start filling our 401k’s.
-Bubs
What we are saying, as I understand it, is that the decision to buy the E2 is possibly already made, and that they asked to have these C rates included and have spread the rumor the C is a "done deal" to get guys to look past the shatty E2 rates thinking the C is coming when it may not be.....
05-23-2018, 12:00 PM
#458
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by PasserOGas
If the MEC has set us up as a "Tier 2, B-Scale, Discount" airline as you say then the MEC needs to go.
Also, the rest of this post is utter nonsense wrapped up like a legal brief. We are not in court. Precedence does not apply here. We are in negotiations. In negotiations we only get discounted if we AGREE to it. You seem to be in an awfully big hurry to be discounted.
Also, the rest of this post is utter nonsense wrapped up like a legal brief. We are not in court. Precedence does not apply here. We are in negotiations. In negotiations we only get discounted if we AGREE to it. You seem to be in an awfully big hurry to be discounted.
I realize we aren’t in court, but having a mediator is just like being in court. Anything in the past having to do with the RLA can and will be brought up as precedence.
“Show me where JB compares to AA, Delta, and United in that respect”
I’m sure, that’s what the company reps say, when the MEC presents them with pay and work rules above the big 3?
Whether you accept it or not, JB was made discounted, grew as discounted, and are starting to be credited as a respectable airline. I think this contract will put us in a respectable tier, with the hope of organic growth towards an industry leading airline. AA, Delta, UAL didn’t get there overnight, SWA used to be a joke (pre 9/11), we started off as a joke, and are now going to get more respect than we ever had. Could we get more...maybe, but since none of us ran for a MEC position, we’ll just hope they did what we elected them to do. Once you read the TA, and do, or don’t like it, please give us your thoughts. Nobody is going to take your “NO” vote away from you, but if the majority of the 3500 pilots vote, “YES”, then you can always run for an MEC position next time, and maybe make some changes?
To leave this topic on a good note, I hope you get what you want, but most of all, I hope the majority are satisfied with the end result.
05-23-2018, 12:09 PM
#459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by Hercbubba
Once again, no matter what you or I think, since that AK arbitrator’s decision, I’m positive, the Company, Mediator and MEC look at us as a second tier airline.
I realize we aren’t in court, but having a mediator is just like being in court. Anything in the past having to do with the RLA can and will be brought up as precedence.
“Show me where JB compares to AA, Delta, and United in that respect”
I’m sure, that’s what the company reps say, when the MEC presents them with pay and work rules above the big 3?
Whether you accept it or not, JB was made discounted, grew as discounted, and are starting to be credited as a respectable airline. I think this contract will put us in a respectable tier, with the hope of organic growth towards an industry leading airline. AA, Delta, UAL didn’t get there overnight, SWA used to be a joke (pre 9/11), we started off as a joke, and are now going to get more respect than we ever had. Could we get more...maybe, but since none of us ran for a MEC position, we’ll just hope they did what we elected them to do. Once you read the TA, and do, or don’t like it, please give us your thoughts. Nobody is going to take your “NO” vote away from you, but if the majority of the 3500 pilots vote, “YES”, then you can always run for an MEC position next time, and maybe make some changes?
To leave this topic on a good note, I hope you get what you want, but most of all, I hope the majority are satisfied with the end result.
I realize we aren’t in court, but having a mediator is just like being in court. Anything in the past having to do with the RLA can and will be brought up as precedence.
“Show me where JB compares to AA, Delta, and United in that respect”
I’m sure, that’s what the company reps say, when the MEC presents them with pay and work rules above the big 3?
Whether you accept it or not, JB was made discounted, grew as discounted, and are starting to be credited as a respectable airline. I think this contract will put us in a respectable tier, with the hope of organic growth towards an industry leading airline. AA, Delta, UAL didn’t get there overnight, SWA used to be a joke (pre 9/11), we started off as a joke, and are now going to get more respect than we ever had. Could we get more...maybe, but since none of us ran for a MEC position, we’ll just hope they did what we elected them to do. Once you read the TA, and do, or don’t like it, please give us your thoughts. Nobody is going to take your “NO” vote away from you, but if the majority of the 3500 pilots vote, “YES”, then you can always run for an MEC position next time, and maybe make some changes?
To leave this topic on a good note, I hope you get what you want, but most of all, I hope the majority are satisfied with the end result.
As you say, pre-9/11, they were a joke of an airline. Southwest was where you went if you had too many DUI's to get hired at United in 2000. Then 9/11 happened, and airlines started declaring bankruptcy like it was going out of style.
Fast forward a few years, and Southwest, which had a healthy business model and modest pilot pay, became one of the best paid airlines overnight. How? By not declaring bankruptcy and slashing wages.
Southwest is a good example of the adage that pigs get fed and hogs get slaughtered, and it's something to remember in all facets of life.
05-23-2018, 01:14 PM
#460
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Originally Posted by PasserOGas
If the MEC has set us up as a "Tier 2, B-Scale, Discount" airline as you say then the MEC needs to go.
Also, the rest of this post is utter nonsense wrapped up like a legal brief. We are not in court. Precedence does not apply here. We are in negotiations. In negotiations we only get discounted if we AGREE to it. You seem to be in an awfully big hurry to be discounted.
Also, the rest of this post is utter nonsense wrapped up like a legal brief. We are not in court. Precedence does not apply here. We are in negotiations. In negotiations we only get discounted if we AGREE to it. You seem to be in an awfully big hurry to be discounted.
Wow... this is utterly valid and correct in every sense. I keep running into people who constrain their expectations to being a Tier 2, B-Scale, Discount, low-rent pilot -- and they stand by it to their dying breath! Whose side are they on??
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