DamnÏt...

There goes my dreams of Amsterdam

 

This made me laugh....

 

So you want people to be a Yes vote by default?


What's wrong with being a NO vote until the contract language pulls off many miracles?




This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

WE know 99 reasons .....Is all pilots being with 10% of their BMI one of them? Pilots need to be healthy....

 

If you can dismiss this outright, you really are an epic fool.

 

I guess with your argument whats wrong with being a Yes vote until they read it? Did you take Philosophy in college?

I am UNDECIDED until I read it.

 

Everyone voting NO has that right but mathematically is a percentage raise in COLA or $3-4 per hour more worth waiting 6 months to a year? For those who aren’t aware how mediators work the current mediator does not have sympathy for this pilot group. He certainly didn’t for the last regional he mediated and put them on ice.

Like it or not the airline isn’t falling apart. Too many jetblue pilots continue to pick us RSA/VDA. Then company may be delayed over the summer but operations will not halt no matter how angry you are. Jetblue is 12/12 in OTP. Clearly they don’t care much about the rating so a “better late than never” attitude will still allow for a summer schedule completion.

Politics and perception play a great role in mediation. What did Spirit achieve in the last round? Greater signing bonus?

To each their own but measure the consequences and do so absent emotion. As I’ve mentioned before I’ve been here longer than most but my disgust for jetblue and it’s mamagement certainly doesn’t mean a negotiator/mediator is going to factor that into $$$$$.

Is this contract industry standard NOW. Not 2, 3, 4 years from now but at the date of signing. That’s how patter bargaining works.

 

Great post and most will agree, but the angry revenge posse are about to call you names.
Pog will call you a scab and Q will call you weak.

 

I'll bite. First, we need to clarify, while this is a 4 year contract, we are likely to be working under it for 6-8 years. They won't just give just give us a new/better contract in 4 years when this becomes amendable. They will drag it out as long as possible. So we have to factor in the end rates for this are likely all we will get for a long time, while EVERY one of our peers opens up now thru 2019 and will likely get even higher rates (assuming they keep the 3-4% trajectory), putting us further behind as our low rates grow at 2% three times. We don't just vote in a substandard TA now, because we think we can improve it in a few years. That's not how this works.

$3-$4 an hour? No. 320/321 blended rate should be $265 min with 3% COLA. Our end rate in our contract is $275. Way too low for the next 4-8 years for a blended rate, for an aircraft that will likely be flying to Europe, with an embarrassingly low intl override. 3% with a $265 DOS would put it at $290 at the end of the contract. On the E190/195/CS100/300 side there's an even bigger delta. We got $228/$248. DOS rates need to be $240/$250, with 3%. My personal baseline is DOS $230 E190, $240 E195, $240 CS100, $250 CS300, and 3% of course.

We should also have a stipulation that there is a 3% COLA increase each year the contract expires (well it doesn't expire, just becomes amendable). This would motivate the company to not drag it out, which airlines, especially this one, love to do. They need financial incentive to negotiate in good faith and in a timely manner.

Waiting 6-12 months for these gains? Who says it would take that long? Where's the proof? It COULD take that long, but JetBlue now wants this done. Jamie Baker/JP Morgan have applied a new level of pressure, one that they respond to. They have deals they want to make, and being in a protracted labor dispute won't help that. If the company can fix a few things with the AIP, this thing will be acceptable/good. If we vote this down, its very likely in my opinion that they will fix the deficiencies, with or without a mediator, for the small percentage increase in their overall cost for a pilot contract. They are at the point where it makes financial sense for the company to get a pilot deal.

Next, we aren't a regional. How our mediator dealt with a regional is completely irrelevant. We are the most profitable major airline in the country by some metrics, we spend gobs of money on frivolous stuff, and we sell our own seats. Does a regional do any of that? Does a regional have near the revenue per pilot that we do? No. Our mediator doesn't care what deal is made. His job is just to facilitate negotiations and keep the negotiations going and prevent them from stalling. If we vote this down, it's irrelevant to his position. Should he be involved in hypothetical follow up negotiations after this vote, his stance won't change. He will tell the two sides to come to terms that would satisfy management and satisfy the pilot group. If this gets voted down, obviously the current terms of the AIP/TA didn't satisfy the pilots. So something will have to give, and it won't be from us.

They clearly don't care about the operation...they put Joanna in charge of it. But they care about Wall St and their pending aircraft purchases in which they are "deep into negotiations." I am getting RSA emails constantly right now, and it isn't even summer. Who cares if we have people picking stuff up right now. Since we have an AIP, we aren't in a labor dispute. But even all these helpers won't help the shtshow that will ensue this summer. But that doesn't matter nearly as much as Wall St pressure to wrap this up, taking me back to my point about this not taking 6-12 months to fix with a no vote.

Is this industry standard now? No, it isn't. Our 2018/2019 rates fall short, as do our COLA increases. Based on only the bullet points, we have a LOT of good things in this contract. We have some average things in this contract. And we have some things that are meh. And we have a LOT of things that will depend on the language. BUT, rates won't change with language, neither will COLA increases, and neither will profit sharing. Where this could be the greatest thing since sliced bread everywhere else, those items make it very difficult to look past. After reading the language, educating ourselves, and seeing the road shows, we can all decide for ourselves if it meets our individual and collective expectations.

Is waiting 6-12 months for $3 an hour a good idea? No way. But that was a false choice you presented, or at least a choice based on assumptions that I believe to be off base and not realistic.

 

Couldn’t have said it better BeatNavy, but what do I know... I’m just an old grunt and not a Seaman!