Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chow
Oceanic,
Can you give us a bit of a snap shot of what life is like working in China? Do you live there full time? Do you have a wife and kids?
Personally I think my future is somewhere overseas as I see little hope for ever making it to the majors in the U.S.
TC
I'll do the best I can, there is some great information on APC if you look through the Foreign forums,
I've been here three years. When I lost my job I thought there was "No way in HE double hockey sticks" I'd move to Asia. I figured my wife would veto it in a heart beat. As it turns out it's amazing what everyone will do when considering the alternative. We have two daughters here, ages 6 and 9 now, and they handled the move extremely well. When we moved here we did it and didn't look back. We sold our house, cars, and everything but our personal belongings and locked them in a storage building. We moved over here with a bunch of suitcases and our cat and dog.
Every day life in China is interesting. We are in Shenzhen which is just across the border from Hong Kong so the climate is warm and provides easy access to HK. China is generally dirty and noisy and the people generally don't conform to what we would consider acceptable behavior. They let their kids pee and poop in the streets and they will throw their trash on the ground rather than throw it in the garbage can right next to them. Hey, why do that when they have so many people whose job it is to clean up after them? They drive crazy and they assume no traffic laws actually apply to them. They drive like they ride their bikes...most people over here 20 years ago didn't have cars so it's a new concept for most of them.
Having said that they are also kind people who will go out of their way to assist you even with the language barrier. Many people are uneducated and don't know any English. I'm doing the Rosetta Stone Mandarin course to learn and I also learn quite a bit of "aviation Chinese" at work. My kids take Chinese in the international schools and know more than they let on. They all look after children and it is a common sight to see a six or seven year old helping their little brother or sister across a busy intersection or riding the city buses by themselves on their way to school or home. Crime is low...It's still a communist country after all and guns are outlawed. People whack people with meat cleavers if they get really vengeful...
Pollution is a big problem over here and it gets worse in the industrial cities especially up north where they still use coal to heat buildings. The smog in Beijing is crazy. Shenzhen is not too bad. My wife has asthma and does okay most of the time. I know some guys buy hospital grade air purifiers for their apartments and they say it helps a lot. We just keep our windows shut and run the A/C if we need too...
Most bigger cities will have an expat community where you can have a support system and access to western goods and groceries. We are quite happy in our little world in Shenzhen and live on the bay that borders Hong Kong. We have a great view of the water and mountains in HK out of our apartment. Apartments in the expat areas where I live are approximately $800/mo for a 2 bedroom/1 bath approx. 900 sq. ft; $1500/mo for a 3 bedroom/2 bath approx. 1500-1700 sq. ft.; or $2500/mo for a 5 bedroom/3 bath approx. 2500 sq. ft. Utilities and management fee run me another $400 a month but I have one of the larger apartments and run my A/C units a lot. My wife wanted a big place when she moved and honestly it's worth it. Many of my friends have smaller places who don't have kids and pets and they are quite happy so you can live cheaper than I do for sure.
We have a part-time house keeper that is from the Philippines and speaks English. She comes three days a week and cleans for half a day and we pay her about $200/month. She is wonderful - I don't know what I'd do without her.
International school is expensive. We send our kids to QSI International. My wife is a teacher and considered home schooling but in the end decided to send them to a traditional class room. All of QSI teachers are either from the US or Canada. They have many international students and when it comes time to celebrate birthdays singing in about 9 or 10 languages is common. We pay about $15,000 year per child for elementary school. If you live in Hong Kong expect to pay a little more for housing but I'm told the public (read free) schools are actually pretty good. Some of my friends have left Shenzhen and done just that.
There is a large women's group here in Shenzhen called SWIC and provides a lot of support to the spouses (and me too through my wife). My wife has many friends and we all look out for one another. We are a big extended family. My wife was recently in the hospital and my youngest daughter's teacher watched our girls for us at her home.
A note on medical care...we consider most of the hospital here to be inadequate. There is a local clinic with western trained doctors that we go to for simple things. Other than that unless someone is bleeding to death we go to HK where we have found the care and standards to be almost as high as in the U.S.
To get started flying over here you will take your Chinese ATP written exam which is full of translation errors and questions which make no sense at all. I studied hard and consider myself fairly intelligent and I think I got an 84. High score in my group was an 87 I think. People do flunk it. You also must not have any restrictions on your FAA ATP. If you still have a circling restriction on it see if you can get your friendly examiner to remove it next check ride or schedule a one hour sim session at PANAM, etc.
The medical in China has been compared to that of an astronaut and is right on the money. In addition to the "normal" exam given by the CAAC you will undergo an EEG brain wave scan, EKG stress test on the treadmill, a chest x-ray, and an ultrasound of your internal organs. A new requirement for those 45 and older requires an MRI/MRA exam and an ultrasound of your carotid artery. If you pass you know you are healthy. As crazy as it sounds they do find things that save people's lives. A good friend of mine was diagnosed last year of an arterial blockage (almost 100 percent) and ended up having three stents put in. The doctors in HK are convinced the tests saved him a heart attack.
Actual flying in China is frustrating. Even though ATC is supposed to speak English if it goes beyond normal communications expect some confusion. Delays are rampant as the military controls most of the airspace here and separation standards are very large. I think it must resemble when the controllers were moving model airplanes around on a big table and collecting position reports. I try to fly our international routes whenever possible...
The pay is good. As someone countered the pay at BAA was a little on the low side. I'd have to say that for a typed captain it is $11,200 month which is $134,400 year. If you're an FO they will take you without a type and it is still $9600/mo or $115,200 year. I believe either is more than 99 percent of the guys still on the seniority list at Comair are earning. They also include up to $5,500 year for travel money. Add to this the per diems ($100/day U.S., $120/day Asia, and $160/day Europe) and the fact that you aren't paying income tax and it isn't such a bad deal. I have a CPA who is quite knowledgable of foreign income taxes file my returns and I haven't paid Uncle Sam a dime in 3 years. I even have a credit for future years tax returns if I ever go back to the U.S. or I switch to a commuting contract. He is worth every penny I pay him ($500).
This isn't the life for everybody but it can be an experience you will never forget and will certainly get you through a downturn in the U.S. You don't need to do it forever. Honestly though I wouldn't go back to the States now for a flying job unless SWA, FedEX, or UPS called me. I can't go to FedEX because I live overseas so I have two airlines on my list. Other than that I like putting thousands of dollars in the bank and taking exotic vacations.
Just my two cents.
If anyone needs more info feel free to PM me.
Oceanic
04-25-2024
