Nuttin against new hires...and certainly don't want them starving over in FDAs, but do you really think we should let the company off the hook by making a "side letter" agreement for new hires in FDAs because they couldn't fill the FDAs with the compensation offer to all pilots already on the property in the current LOA..???

Wow, then the company would really be able to put the dollar bills on the table one-by-one and see the absolute minimum they need to offer to get the FDAs filled.

Extremely dangerous precedent IMHO.

Other thoughts??

"Shack Two"

IMHO, an error in judgement was made when both parties believed that any LOA addressing two FDAs could exist as a fixed-in-stone document. In my belief, the LOA had to be a starting point, from which to build. And both parties needed to state that up front. So where do we go from here? I'm not paid by the union, but I would suggest a formalized FDA Working Group be established. Maybe this exists already between ALPA & FDX, but if so, I'm not aware. (I have heard from my rep "well, we talk all the time, about a lot of things, including the FDAs." Well, that ain't workin'.) One of the working group members should be JL. I've always known exactly where he stood, and he has a sense of humor. Another should be a member--possibly the chairman--of the NC. Other members should include those with a vested interest in the FDAs--maybe a junior pilot awarded a bid to each FDA. This working group could formalize the sweeteners already stated, and not just by some lame FCIF with an expiration date or whim to change AFTER the bid is closed. Meet on a regular basis TBD. Publish the minutes, and make this work--both for FDX and for the pilots. I'm not running the company, just flying boxes. But this would be my way out of this jungle.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense..........It will never happen

Now this seems like much too good an idea. Here's my take on this very good suggestion ... I learned years ago that if management wanted our input, they would ask for it (and tell us what our input was going to be!).

There are NO good ideas that they haven't already thought of ... just ask them! I could give several examples but I've probably made my point ...

Mark

There is no more money on the table for such a working group.

Except $10,000 for your deposit, Except another 500lbs to ship to the FDA, Except .....?

Yes, more communication is typically better instead of veiled threats ("they'll hire foreign pilots") and brinksmanship ("this is our first and last offer")

I believe there were many members of the "lunatic fringe" on this board that were suggesting more calm, measured discussion/negogiation back in July and Aug when the deficiencies in the LOA were very quickly becoming apparent.

If it takes a faild bid to drive a formal LOA revision --- so be it.

As Albie is always smart to point out, our goal is for a "win-win" for us and the company!

It seems that the MEC, based on info recieved from my sponsor, is requesting an extension of the bids for the FDA and side letters to protect those in the FDA's. I assume that this would include "new hires" as it is stated in the latest MEC message that came out on 11/15/07.

Based on this information, what is the current bidding in VIPS for F/Os for HKG and CDG?

Any "WAG's" on when the poolies might get called?

Thanks....

Whale

Last practice bid numbers have not changed. No publicly announced changes to the bid close on Monday yet.

I admire your perserverance but I would not expect anything before spring. New hires would start training after people on property.

Whale.

The email we received from the MEC on this subject is posted on another thread (titled "MEC msg ...'). I don't see a reference to extending the closing date on the bid, although it does sort of hint that an extension might be necessary in order to formalize some of the "sweeteners" not already in the LOA.

Personally, I think the FDA bid looks like a huge embarrassment to both the company and the union. We were told it will go VERY senior, thus no real need for STV? And ... The Subic guys WILL bid it! Only the VERY junior are bidding it and not enough of them to man the base (but maybe that was the company plan all along?). Regardless, I'm disappointed in both my (highly profitable) company and my union for not making the FDA package a better deal. If it had been, I would have bid it myself.