Wow! I'm surprised he bought the beer with an attitude like that. Btw, what is your DB going to be? Mine too.

Classic example of pulling up the ladder. I just can't believe he had the balls to say this directly to someone who also will not have a pension, and whose career will be much more impacted by further erosion of scope. I think I'd rather drink alone that with that guy. No knock towards you intended - free beer has a mighty strong appeal. Especially that sweetwater 420 you bubbas have down south.

Fwiw I too hope to get some reps in that don't feel the same as this selfish d!ck.

Would you vote to cut the pay rates of the top of the list to regain all the 70+ seat flying? Does that make you a selfish D***? No, it just makes you a normal human being, acting on one's own self interest.

His point was that without a DB he lacks any stake in how the company does after he leaves. In order to provide for his family he has to make as much for the next 10 years as he possibly can and everyone else be darned.

What we have is a huge cultural/generational shift between an older generation who grew up on pensions and retirement promises and a younger generation who have been brought up on self reliance and personal investing. This clash mirrors a wider demographic and economical shift with the retirement of the Baby Boomers. The seniors are vocal and vote in droves so politicians listen and act on their behest. Does voting for increased Social Security taxes benefit the younger workers? No but it mollifies a large and active minority and pushes a larger problem further down the line. Our MEC reps are probably no different. Add to this in our system seniority is EVERYTHING and you can see why the concerns of the junior segment gets short shrift.

I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. We can't change this union from the top down. We need to elect local reps who represent our demographic. It will be a long term process.

And BTW, I told him I am glad there is no more DB. A DC makes more sense for my demographic. It's all a matter of perspective.

A selfish pilot, why I never....

Funny how perspective changes your view on the situation. I'm not hot on Scope because I need to be a Captain. The outsourced flying is trashing my career earnings, and my ability to save for retirement. I'm an aggressive Saver/Investor. At the beginning of my career at Delta at age 40, I was looking at a retirement of approximately 49% FAE. I've looked at several financial calculators to see exactly how much I need in the bank to replace that terminated retirement. I'm not even in the ball park, regardless of DALPA's calculations. The sooner I make it to the left seat, the better shape I'll be in at age 76 when I retire from Delta.

So for most of us it's mostly about career earnings..... Having said that, It's not about selling out your fellow pilot. Is this where the, RJ are good for the Delta Pilots Career Mantra comes from? Good for the top 10%

Wouldn't mind being stuck in the middle of the Pacific with this guy in a small boat, I could use him for bait.......

Exactly! For the senior folks it's about career EARNINGS. For the junior guy it's about CAREER earnings. The same goal just different emphasis.

Exactly. Plus, the union knows where their income comes from...the senior guys who pay more dues. This is a selfish industry and the system rewards those who are more selfish than the others. As a junior guy, I get it. Its not what I thought I was signing up for, but life's a *****. I'm not so naive as to think it'll ever change. I'm all over the scope thing but the guys that matter aren't. So, we'll all still sign in for the next rotation and do what we do. Safely, professionally, and with an attitude that is exemplary.

But shouldn't Lee and his bunch be looking out for the "greater good" of our group? I just think it's time for Lee to go...... He took us through this past few years, now it's time for him to step down, take a bow.... Go to National, I don't care.... But I've seen enough of this....... "The RJs will be limited to 70 seats, it's our line in the sand". Said it one-on-one to my face. Lee, I just don't trust you....... No political capital with me.....

You will go. You'll salute smartly, pick up your extra 2 hours of block, try not to shake your head too much, and avoid eye contact with the customers in back who are definitely shaking their heads.

I disagree with the guy and don't respect him. His position and perspective is BS because there is no reason why a unified polit group can't have scope and pay.

With people like him, it is less likely that we will get both because the company knows they can fool many of us into thinking we have to choose one or the other.

I am just as concerned about his retirement as I am about scope. What happened to them is not fair. But, that doesn't mean that what happened to the bottom of the list is not fair either. 2012 should be about fixing both.

You should have told him about himself. Let's educate ignorance from here on out.

New K Now

Makes you wonder what he will do if we have to go on strike in 2012. Those are the same reasons a scab crosses the picket line.

Well put, and point taken on his perspective.

I would vote yes (depending on the entire document we were reviewing - I'd hate to be labeled a "single issue dolt") for a contract that restored some of our scope but resulted in a little shared pain across the board.

How would this LCA feel about a strike vote? It may cost him a little money for the long-term good of the group, what would he do?

Back to that word "perspective" again.

I think most of us are in the same corner on this issue. I am impressed with your ability to get outside yourself and view this from someone else's point of view. Maybe if we could all do a little more of that, there wouldn't be such a disparity in "perspective."