Details on Delta TA - Page 451 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#4501

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 03:26 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotstats

Not at all. Not sure where it was stated "must be given up", those are your words not mine. I wholly disagree with that philosophy! Profit sharing is not bad, it's quite valuable actually (as the last few years have finally shown). I expect that the value will continue to be there over the next few years.

Then why are you working as hard as you possibly can to make the case that profit sharing can be lowered or traded?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotstats

Your second comment is rather insulting, some of us(maybe not you) have actually been on the receiving end of a Ford and Harrison campaign, it's ugly, destructive, and has hurt many families over the years. I kindly ask that you refrain from attempting to apply that description to me.

If you're truly insulted by that reference and want me to refrain from describing you that way, then stop deserving it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotstats

If you notice, I agree with you in regards to valuation issues.

No we don't. You're confusing past value calculations with future calculations. You're wanting to monetize future profit sharing without knowing the future. It's exactly what the MEC administration has been spouting for some time now.

Carl

#4502

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 03:33 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Mantooth

I'd be remiss if I didn't add that there'd have been no UAL c2k rates had they not (successfully and admirably) patterned off of the "Delta Dot."

Despite attacks on their fortitude and unionism, I'm grateful that many of the men who brought us the "Dot" and C2k are still working on our behalf.

Let me guess: You're grateful for Harwood, White, Donutelli, Hazzard, etc?

Yup DALPA working on behalf of pilots. [face palm]

Carl

#4503

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 03:36 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Mantooth

The actions of many on this and other boards who ridicule and vilify anyone remotely connected to DALPA certainly have a very real price.

The actions of many in the MEC administration that went around our reps and ignored our process have a much higher price.

Carl

#4504

OldFlyGuy , 05-21-2015 03:45 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzsg

NWA did as well. Side letter #1.

Stand corrected. I thought all other agreements said if you couldn't negotiate a rate you arbitrated. At DAL we could stonewall and park the jets. OFG

#4505

Purple Drank , 05-21-2015 03:59 PM

Straight QOL, homie

Confirmed through multiple sources:

- MEC approved invasive sick leave investigations
- MEC approved removing LCA trips from FO PBS options

- NC member broke down crying and threatened to quit when he received pushback from the MEC.

I can't even fathom that. One of the guys sitting at the table for us--he's supposed to be getting us the best possible deal!--is so far in the tank for the company, he started crying when he couldn't persuade an already weak MEC to agree to more concessions.

It's sickening.

#4506

Purple Drank , 05-21-2015 04:01 PM

Straight QOL, homie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Let me guess: You're grateful for Harwood, White, Donutelli, Hazzard, etc?

Yup DALPA working on behalf of pilots. [face palm]

Carl

D Mantooth sounds exactly like that Curly guy (hatchet man for the entrenched bureaucrats).

#4507

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 04:02 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential

I don't think so.
ALPA has to be worried they would not survive another C2012.

2 things have to occur:

1) This contract has to be a huge gain for the pilots.
Some give and take? Sure. But a huge gain.

2) The process has to be "clean".
The permanent ALPA guys or "shadow MEC" or whatever you want to call them, can NOT be seen as having subverted the will of the pilot's elected reps or having any other undue influence on the outcome. That can't happen again.

If those 2 things do not occur I think you would see some serious, credible people step up and either start a new organization, or more likely, assume leadership of the DPA. ALPA would then be removed as the bargaining agent for the Delta pilots.

This contract is critical. For the Delta pilots AND for ALPA.

I'm not too sure about this Check. As I've been saying for some time now, our union has been purchased right out from under us. DALPA doesn't represent Delta pilots, they represent Delta management. It's a pretend Union. But here's the interesting part: By a 10-9 margin, this is EXACTLY what Delta line pilots want...a fake Union. One that will never challenge Mother Delta.

There's a chance that a slim majority of our pilot group could vote down a TA that's ratified by the reps if it's just too insulting. That's the only weapon we have against a union that is owned by non-members.

Carl

#4508

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 04:08 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

acl65?...........

No, acl65 was one of the most purely political hacks I'd ever seen. He was completely incapable of a straight answer. Every statement filled with escape hatches if needed for future denials.

This guy is at least direct. I'm guessing maybe the reincarnation of Bucking Bar?

Carl

#4509

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 04:17 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamer

Who is the shadow MEC? Do they fly the line or are they paid for with dues money to do something else??

Our MEC is supposed to be the reps. They've been rendered completely irrelevant by the shadow MEC. They consist of select MEC administrators who work to ensure the reps continued irrelevance and run the union top down. They cut Kingsley Roberts' throat because Kingsley didn't want this...he wanted the reps to run things bottom up. They're in full swing now with side negotiations and strategic planning of how to cram C2015 down everyone's throats by making it look like you'll lose less by a vote YES.

Hey, I think I just found Donutelli's new slogan for the C2015 sales job: "LOSE LESS BY VOTING YES!"

Carl

#4510

Carl Spackler , 05-21-2015 04:23 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

As far as contract 2012 I can't say I was a strong advocate for it...

Unreal. You were right there with all the usual suspects selling a YES vote just as hard as you could.

Carl