Details on Delta TA
04-04-2015, 03:03 PM
#3501
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Sailing fun, I agree with you some of the time but not in this instance. The 747 2015 captain hourly rate is $270 and change in contract 2012. If you are going to compare hourly rates, then do so without fudging them. Profit sharing has nothing to do with hourly rate.
Denny
Denny
Certainly there are no guarantees with PS but it is a part of our contractual compensation.
04-04-2015, 03:12 PM
#3502
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by EdGrimley
For those of you who haven't watched it, I highly encourage you to login to Deltanet then come back and click on the link below. It's Ed Bastian speaking at the ATL crew lounge March 24 for the 2015 base visit.
The whole presentation is interesting but especially where Ed speaks to debt reduction (paid down $15 Billion in five years and will be down to $5 Billion this year and DEBT FREE two years following). Key in starting at :55 mark in the video where he Ed talks about our performance vs other airlines and then talks about the debt reduction at the 4 minute mark.
Regarding the fuel refinery watch Ed's Q & A and key in starting at the 4 minute mark. Contrary to what Sailing has said multiple times, the refinery has turned out being a great investment and has more than paid for the initial investment, and will continue earning/saving money going forward.
Regarding C2012, the notion the company was contemplating keeping 50 seaters and performing engine overhauls is utter nonsense. Those planes were going away one way or the other and have saved Billions by allowing them to upgage including more 76 seaters. A different story than was broadcast leading up to the vote. Sometimes you just have to use your noggin and apply a little logic vs the talking points you are being fed. Let's do that for C2015, instead of being lead down a primrose path of "getting the membership to vote yes".
Please ignore those here who are preaching the sky will soon be falling. To the contrary, profits will continue to go up with even higher payouts. Don't touch profit sharing! If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an
industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules.
Link didn't take. Go to the bottom right corner on the Flight Ops page and click on "Missed a Flight Ops Base Visit".
The whole presentation is interesting but especially where Ed speaks to debt reduction (paid down $15 Billion in five years and will be down to $5 Billion this year and DEBT FREE two years following). Key in starting at :55 mark in the video where he Ed talks about our performance vs other airlines and then talks about the debt reduction at the 4 minute mark.
Regarding the fuel refinery watch Ed's Q & A and key in starting at the 4 minute mark. Contrary to what Sailing has said multiple times, the refinery has turned out being a great investment and has more than paid for the initial investment, and will continue earning/saving money going forward.
Regarding C2012, the notion the company was contemplating keeping 50 seaters and performing engine overhauls is utter nonsense. Those planes were going away one way or the other and have saved Billions by allowing them to upgage including more 76 seaters. A different story than was broadcast leading up to the vote. Sometimes you just have to use your noggin and apply a little logic vs the talking points you are being fed. Let's do that for C2015, instead of being lead down a primrose path of "getting the membership to vote yes".
Please ignore those here who are preaching the sky will soon be falling. To the contrary, profits will continue to go up with even higher payouts. Don't touch profit sharing! If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an
industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules.
Link didn't take. Go to the bottom right corner on the Flight Ops page and click on "Missed a Flight Ops Base Visit".
I watched the presentation also. I also read every word of Ed's testimony in the 1113 hearings so I am not a fan. Management has faced critism in financial circles over the refinery and is working hard to justify it. Listen again however to his statement on paying off the refinery. He talks only of initial investment. He does not talk about the cost to upgrade the refinery or the losses it sustained over several years. They are a ways from paying off those items. With the recent plunge in oil they may get there but it has not happened yet. The initial investment was only 150 million.
04-04-2015, 03:24 PM
#3503
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I watched the presentation also. I also read every word of Ed's testimony in the 1113 hearings so I am not a fan. Management has faced critism in financial circles over the refinery and is working hard to justify it. Listen again however to his statement on paying off the refinery. He talks only of initial investment. He does not talk about the cost to upgrade the refinery or the losses it sustained over several years. They are a ways from paying off those items. With the recent plunge in oil they may get there but it has not happened yet. The initial investment was only 150 million.
Regardless of that single point the rest remains, this company is on the brink of pumping out money like has never been seen in the airline industry before. The chicken littles here (be they management or union) should be ignored. Their message is geared to benefit those outside of the line pilots at Delta Air Lines.
04-04-2015, 03:26 PM
#3504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Jump ball question:
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
04-04-2015, 03:27 PM
#3505
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Sailing fun, I agree with you some of the time but not in this instance. The 747 2015 captain hourly rate is $270 and change in contract 2012. If you are going to compare hourly rates, then do so without fudging them. Profit sharing has nothing to do with hourly rate.
Personally, I think constructive engagement is a strategy, not a perpetual way of life. You could argue that we really didn't get as much for our help as we should have, in C2012. I voted for C2012, without regrets, because at the time, we didn't know if the economy was going to be like 2009, or like 2015 is turning out.
Overall, as sailing has pointed out, we've enjoyed some very worthy gains since the ugly days of LOA46. It's really hard to argue against that. The question is whether C2012 is evidence of a strategy that has run it's course, or just a slightly weak TA considering the strength of the company at the time.
Looking ahead, I will judge the value of any engagement simply by the outcome. Engagement for the sake of engagement is useless. Engagement for the sake of results is laudable.
And I'm rooting for ALPA's success at the negotiating table.
Last edited by Sink r8; 04-04-2015 at 03:40 PM.
04-04-2015, 03:31 PM
#3506
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Karnak
The lowest trigger for augmentation (8 & 12). Everyone else is at 9 & 13. Those triggers mean we have to staff augmented fleets with more pilots.
04-04-2015, 03:33 PM
#3507
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Karnak
Got it.
It's a reading comprehension issue.
It's a reading comprehension issue.
Originally Posted by Karnak
Go back to page 27 and read it again. Use a calculator if it helps. Then, look VERY carefully at the 4th column and see if any airlines have a "YES" in that column. (Let me know if you don't understand what that "YES" means)
Originally Posted by Karnak
Same with page 34.
The best ADG (by :15).
The best ADG (by :15).
Originally Posted by Karnak
The lowest trigger for augmentation (8 & 12). Everyone else is at 9 & 13. Those triggers mean we have to staff augmented fleets with more pilots.
Delta pilots do not lead the industry in one single section of the contract. Not one. Source: DALPA contract comparison.
Carl
04-04-2015, 03:36 PM
#3509
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Karnak
Jump ball question:
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
04-04-2015, 03:37 PM
#3510
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by Karnak
Jump ball question:
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
EdGrimley posted this comment: "If you believe what Ed says in the video about the performance of this pilot group vs our peers, there should be little argument whether this pilot group deserves an industry leading contract in pay rates (not including profit sharing) and work rules."
Here's the question: Do we believe what the executives tell us?
Not picking on EdGrimley here. Just looking for some opinions.
That's a good question. To hear Ed (the guy who loses sleep over paying too much in wages) speak so optimistically to the pilot group about financials is a good sign. I think management knows there's just too much money coming in to hide so might as well talk about it a little. Lot's of money rolling in even with some bad hedging. 2016 and beyond, Delta is going to knock it out of the park!
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