Details on Delta TA

Reply Subscribe

Page 353 of 1030

353

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

04-04-2015, 04:47 PM

#3521

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Nope. It means we lead in Profit Sharing.

No it doesn't. It means our profit sharing calculation formula is the best. The best formula multiplied by zero is still zero. But again, I'll let others look at the rest of the DALPA contract comparison where other airlines beat us in nearly every pay category, and decide if the best profit sharing formula means we lead the industry in Section 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Nice try! At 6.5 TFP for the day, it means a SWA pilot qualifies for the conditional maximum 5:39 ADG exactly never. SWA is working under an old contract, and the ADG conversion was not modified after FAR117.

I didn't say my source was Karnak, I said my source was the DALPA contract comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Got me! Crew Augmentation is indeed a "portion" of all the language in our contract that can be called Work Rules. It's an important portion, and one that has a significant impact on staffing and QOL for long haul pilots, but golly…it's on a "portion". it's also an area where we clearly lead the industry.

I understand how you'd want to diminish that. First World problems.

Not trying to diminish it at all. That portion of the work rules is the best, but your claim that it's an important portion is debatable...especially since we're comparing with airlines that don't do long haul. Again, the Work Rules leaders are UPS and Southwest. Delta pilots are not.

Carl

04-04-2015, 04:49 PM

#3522

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Nope. Not me. You're going to have to show me when/where I've ever said that. The 717's were not a factor in my vote. I did like the window of opportunity, but you're really straining your credibility by claiming I was "one of the stingiest trumpeters". That's Baghdad Bob stuff right there.

I didn't say you were one of the stingiest trumpeter, I said you were one of the strongest trumpeters.

Carl

04-04-2015, 04:51 PM

#3523

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Kinda hard to identify trumpeters on an anonymous board anyway, isn't it?

Not really. APC anonymous board members have names and avatars attached to their posts.

Carl

04-04-2015, 04:54 PM

#3524

BenderRodriguez

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2014

Posts: 1,184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Delta pilots do not lead the industry in one single section of the contract. Not one. Source: DALPA contract comparison.

Wow. You are the master of spin.

04-04-2015, 05:29 PM

#3525

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Delta pilots do not lead the industry in one single section of the contract. Not one. Source: DALPA contract comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez

bee eff deeeeee

Actual Delta pilots consider it a big deal. People pretending to be a Delta pilot...probably not.

Carl

04-04-2015, 05:31 PM

#3526

Raging white

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2007

Position: 5-9 block, kill removing

Posts: 385

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez

Wow. You are the master of spin.

I've read the last few pages very differently. I judge Carl way ahead on points, just not sure what round you're all in.

04-04-2015, 05:34 PM

#3527

sailingfun

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 19,364

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raging white

I've read the last few pages very differently. I judge Carl way ahead on points, just not sure what round you're all in.

The one measure that can be used to compare contracts overall is pilot block hour costs. Ask Carl how we do in that regard!

04-04-2015, 06:09 PM

#3528

Vikz09

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2007

Position: M88 B

Posts: 399

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The one measure that can be used to compare contracts overall is pilot block hour costs. Ask Carl how we do in that regard!

Those stats are extremely miss leading as we operate the widest variety of aircraft and fleets. Our management loves the fleet flexibility when it benefits them and use it as a excuse when it's convenient. It's not my problem management control's the fleet and respected staffing on those fleets. The funny thing about all this is you are adamant on making management's case at every opportunity.

What I am still trying to figure out is why after you and your friends got voted out why you continue to still attempt to steer pilot perception? At least you have been engaged with others on this board. However, Sharpest and bend over Rodriguez come out only when a lowering of expectations is needed.

04-04-2015, 06:24 PM

#3529

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The one measure that can be used to compare contracts overall is pilot block hour costs. Ask Carl how we do in that regard!

And yet the DALPA contract comparison didn't include pilot block hour costs. There's a reason for that. It's because unions have no control over how management runs the airline. An example is Delta operating many aircraft types while Southwest only operates one. In that comparison, the exact same contractual provision would produce a different cost per block hour because of a management decision.

I don't know why you work so hard to run from the DALPA contract comparison and add other meaningless items attempting to prove whatever case you're trying to prove. The DALPA contract comparison is all we have. It shows Delta pilots don't lead the industry in one single section. Not one.

Carl

04-04-2015, 06:41 PM

#3530

Karnak

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2010

Posts: 852

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

No it doesn't. It means our profit sharing calculation formula is the best. The best formula multiplied by zero is still zero.

Yup. For all airlines. Our formula, and historic payouts, lead the industry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

But again, I'll let others look at the rest of the DALPA contract comparison where other airlines beat us in nearly every pay category, and decide if the best profit sharing formula means we lead the industry in Section 3.

Or we could look at our compensation, as in W2. A bottom line value. For hours flown last year by peers, who do you suppose had the highest W2 for hours flown?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I didn't say my source was Karnak, I said my source was the DALPA contract comparison.

Except you ignored the note in the Contract Comparison explaining the 5:39 ADG. You also chose to ignore the impact of FAR117 on the "potential" ADG at SWA. Ignoring them is ok, but they don't go away - or cease to relevant when making comparisons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Ok. So if we trade our augmentation triggers to match the rest of the industry, you'll be cool with it? You won't point out where we had been leading the industry in augmentation (and widebody staffing)? Something tells me you wouldn't be calling it "debatable".