UAL and Jumpseats
10-15-2019 | 06:19 AM
#312
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
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Then push for dedicated and non-dedicated designations and base jumpseat priority off of those. A SkyWest pilot has a different number for Delta, depending on if they're dedicated or not.
Tired of hearing this excuse from United pilots when its blatantly false. Sure, these things happened. But if that was all the problem really was, then you would have chosen one of a number of better solutions. Instead, you guys created an entirely new priority with you at the top of it (after own metal). How convenient that your "solution" to the problem just so happened to put you guys higher up in priority than the regional guys who only fly United (if not on own metal).
Tired of hearing this excuse from United pilots when its blatantly false. Sure, these things happened. But if that was all the problem really was, then you would have chosen one of a number of better solutions. Instead, you guys created an entirely new priority with you at the top of it (after own metal). How convenient that your "solution" to the problem just so happened to put you guys higher up in priority than the regional guys who only fly United (if not on own metal).
It’s not a false narrative . I live it every time I commute. I have missed trips so a delta connection dedicated pilot could commute.
10-15-2019 | 06:20 AM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 667
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I love it when some puts “we fly 900 UAX flights a day which is more than zw or c5” yes it is more than them but you fly 1500+ flights for other airlines, so as a pilot you are more likely to support another airline than UAX. If a Skywest pilot walked up to get on a United painted jet it’s a 70% chance he flies other airlines planes regularly while if a Zw or c5 pilot it’s a 100% chance he only supports the United operation.
10-15-2019 | 06:20 AM
#314
On Reserve
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
I’ve been reading these posts for awhile and I think most are missing the point. As a united guy here is my experience, and why these changes were proposed.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been bumped off a flight trying to get to work by a Delta Connection (Skywest) pilot. One flight in particular this delta connection pilot, even wearing a delta lanyard got a gate agent to list him 1.5 hours prior to departure on a non Skywest flight. Since he was listed before me I didn’t make the flight because we were in the same priority level. That pilot flies purely delta feed, wears a delta lanyard and he bumped me off an airplane that literally says United on the side of it, and had a placard in the cockpit that says “owned by United Airlines”.
These priority levels are programmed into the system by United, not ualpa. Why would United not want to give priority to me over a delta connection pilot?
Nothing in that proposal was giving priority over you on your own metal. Skywest was given the proposal in May, and chose not to sign it. I feel like sapa thinks they are the ones that have the upper hand and should have been the ones making the proposal. The airplanes don’t say Skywest on the side, they say United, delta, etc. Skywest is a subcontractor. It is a jumpseat agreement. Sapa was given the agreement and choose no to sign it. Therefore there is no agreement and you get lumped in with American, Southwest etc. sign it and you get moved up a priority level.
Almost every crew I have interacted with at Skywest have been professional crews that would be a great addition to any of the big 3. I have also had experience with your lifers who don’t list for the jumpseat and show up 30 minutes prior and give a little smirk as they bump you off the flight. It seems like those are the ones sending you down this rabbit hole. I am sure as a lifer they want to enjoy their pass benifits on all the big three and the ability to bump me off of other united express carriers. But these United pilots you are denying the jumpseat to will be your coworkers someday.
I hope this gets rectified soon, but in the mean time I will do as my union has asked me to do and file a report every time I get denied the jumpseat.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been bumped off a flight trying to get to work by a Delta Connection (Skywest) pilot. One flight in particular this delta connection pilot, even wearing a delta lanyard got a gate agent to list him 1.5 hours prior to departure on a non Skywest flight. Since he was listed before me I didn’t make the flight because we were in the same priority level. That pilot flies purely delta feed, wears a delta lanyard and he bumped me off an airplane that literally says United on the side of it, and had a placard in the cockpit that says “owned by United Airlines”.
These priority levels are programmed into the system by United, not ualpa. Why would United not want to give priority to me over a delta connection pilot?
Nothing in that proposal was giving priority over you on your own metal. Skywest was given the proposal in May, and chose not to sign it. I feel like sapa thinks they are the ones that have the upper hand and should have been the ones making the proposal. The airplanes don’t say Skywest on the side, they say United, delta, etc. Skywest is a subcontractor. It is a jumpseat agreement. Sapa was given the agreement and choose no to sign it. Therefore there is no agreement and you get lumped in with American, Southwest etc. sign it and you get moved up a priority level.
Almost every crew I have interacted with at Skywest have been professional crews that would be a great addition to any of the big 3. I have also had experience with your lifers who don’t list for the jumpseat and show up 30 minutes prior and give a little smirk as they bump you off the flight. It seems like those are the ones sending you down this rabbit hole. I am sure as a lifer they want to enjoy their pass benifits on all the big three and the ability to bump me off of other united express carriers. But these United pilots you are denying the jumpseat to will be your coworkers someday.
I hope this gets rectified soon, but in the mean time I will do as my union has asked me to do and file a report every time I get denied the jumpseat.
I respect your opinion, however... As far as I'm aware, there has never, EVER been a requirement that sorts jumpseat priority by the reason for jumpseating. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen a regional pilot trying to get to work (for United branded flying) bumped out by a UAL pilot who maneuvered to check in hours early and was going on vacation. I myself was once bumped out by a mainline guy who used a vacation pass to get his son in the last available seat on a SkyWest flight ahead of me and then convinced the gate agent not to check me in so he could get the jump. Anecdotal, sure. But it doesn't change the fact that if we're going to get picky about the reason the regional pilot is trying to get on a flight and who's brand they're supporting this week (that's right, I can pick up a trip in any domicile and fly for any one of three carriers... But how do you know I'm not flying from DEN to PHX because I worked a United trip and then went to PHX, rather than I live in DEN but support an AA operation?), then we ought to start checking to make sure the the mainline UAL guy is in fact going to work and not fishing with his buddies before they're allowed to bump a working pilot.
Also, SkyWest owns every single airplane that we fly under your livery. Yes, you sell the cabin seats and they're "United's" passengers, but they are OUR airplanes. Kinda muddies the waters when United is trying to dictate how we allot our jumpseats. You already have priority on the cabin through the vacation passes. I'm mystified why UALPA thinks they are justified in dictating our jumpseat policy to give UAL an additional leg up there, too. Can you explain to me how UALPA is planning on handling the "Must-ride" tier 1? "United personnel" is pretty darn vague, but it's being put up with FAA in terms of bumping every other priority.
10-15-2019 | 06:26 AM
#315
Line Holder
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 47
Nobody wins in a Jumpseat war.
10-15-2019 | 06:28 AM
#316
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
You are forgiven. I don't know what you're quoting from and there's no way I can help if you keep posting one-liners that could potentially be interpreted in the wrong context.
10-15-2019 | 06:32 AM
#317
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
I respect your opinion, however... As far as I'm aware, there has never, EVER been a requirement that sorts jumpseat priority by the reason for jumpseating. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen a regional pilot trying to get to work (for United branded flying) bumped out by a UAL pilot who maneuvered to check in hours early and was going on vacation. I myself was once bumped out by a mainline guy who used a vacation pass to get his son in the last available seat on a SkyWest flight ahead of me and then convinced the gate agent not to check me in so he could get the jump. Anecdotal, sure. But it doesn't change the fact that if we're going to get picky about who's service the SkyWest pilot is working under each particular trip, then we ought to start checking to make sure the the mainline UAL guy is in fact going to work and not fishing with his buddies before they're allowed to bump a working pilot.
Also, SkyWest owns every single airplane that we fly under your livery. Yes, you sell the cabin seats and they're "United's" passengers, but they are OUR airplanes. Kinda muddies the waters when United is trying to dictate how we allot our jumpseats. You already have priority on the cabin through the vacation passes. I'm mystified why UALPA thinks they are justified in dictating our jumpseat policy to give UAL an additional leg up there, too. Can you explain to me how UALPA is planning on handling the "Must-ride" tier 1? "United personnel" is pretty darn vague, but it's being put up with FAA in terms of bumping every other priority.
Also, SkyWest owns every single airplane that we fly under your livery. Yes, you sell the cabin seats and they're "United's" passengers, but they are OUR airplanes. Kinda muddies the waters when United is trying to dictate how we allot our jumpseats. You already have priority on the cabin through the vacation passes. I'm mystified why UALPA thinks they are justified in dictating our jumpseat policy to give UAL an additional leg up there, too. Can you explain to me how UALPA is planning on handling the "Must-ride" tier 1? "United personnel" is pretty darn vague, but it's being put up with FAA in terms of bumping every other priority.
We can sit here and trade stories how respective pilots have used loopholes to their advantage. There are lots. Ualpa doesn’t have the ability to dictate anything. They proposed and agreement. And SAPA did not agree to it. Therefore there is no agreement.
10-15-2019 | 06:33 AM
#318
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 858
Likes: 22
It’s from the letter I got this morning from company. Basically OO pilots still have priority over UAL or UAX-E pilots for the JS on OO airplanes regardless of check in time? This is the part that I don’t think is clear in the letter. Thanks.
10-15-2019 | 06:36 AM
#319
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 33
From: 777 CA
Every pilot group will always have priority on the own metal. Nobody has ever questioned that. The charts have been posted on basically every thread in this topic.
10-15-2019 | 06:36 AM
#320
On Reserve
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
As far as "proposing an agreement", what really happened is more like telling your kids "We're having liver and onions for dinner." There's no agreement there, that's "eat it or go hungry."
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