Starting today you may notice SAPA no longer quoting the certificate action line.
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Originally Posted by MrBreeze
Has anybody contacted the FAA to see what they are telling us about certificate action is real or not?
FAA says they're not concerned about these issues.
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Originally Posted by ICUROOK
So a pilot is supposed to violate their FOM because some joker on the internet (you) says it okay? Or should they follow their FOM and avoid any ambiguity whatsoever?
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
How about you pick up the phone and call the FAA and remove all ambiguity instead of just avoiding it.
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Originally Posted by 1257
On another point, the threat of certificate action/violation for taking a UAL pilot is not true.
Clearly SAPA is trying to instill FAA enforcement fear in its own pilots to try to somehow hold on to their incorrect exclusive carrier benefits.
The whole SA0X debacle of regional pilots changing their res. at the last minute and bumping mainline pilots on other equipment has fueled the UAL resolve to fix this now.
Sad how it's going down, but this had to be taken care of and it will be now.
While I'm ready to shut my jumpseat down in response to this incorrect SkyWest action,
for the immediate time being, SkyWest pilots are welcome on my jumpseat.
^^^
This
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Originally Posted by Burt123
That’s because your <representatives> were handed a new agreement out of the blue from UALPA stating “this is how it is, this is what we expect you to do” now please shut up and sign we want no discussions about it. Last I read was your executive leadership was onboard with the JS denial action.
It was given to SAPA in May, that's not "out of the blue"
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Originally Posted by butthert
Nothing new here.
United eats it's young and most pilots there have the "yank the ladder up behind them" attitude. It's been going on since the 1990s.
The good thing for regional pilots is that UAL is an airline that cannot survive without regional jets. Kirby wants them and the UAL pilots will eventually cave as more and more continue to replace the UAL narrowbody fleets.
History repeats itself over and over with this place.
Why would UALALPA be more interested in providing growth opportunities for another airline? Would you be happy if SAPA started doing that? I will never understand why someone would be happy to replace narrowbody jobs getting half the pay and benefits!
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Originally Posted by Sniper66
Sentiment it is to be seen in the coming weeks
But I can tell you that at Alpa National I heard many times United pilots mentioned that captains are calling pro standards on new hires from Skywest that are a right seat captains
Not good when a captain calls on any new hire pro standards
We have had the same issues with all the new hires, Regionals and even military. Not a Skywest only problem.
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Originally Posted by BOLO170
Pretty sure most Republic pilots would be fine having this discussion. You guys aren’t technically owned by UA, but I think most would support you guys. The biggest problem is UAALPA didn’t discuss, they just implemented and then strong armed the UAX carriers.
Personally a blanket JS denial is improper in this situation. We should just reciprocate the exact same priority I.e. OAL. I suspect that’s where this will end up anyways. BTW your JS chairman letter is wrong. You certainly can JS on DL or AA flight operated by Republic.
They didn't just implement, when no one shows up for meetings for 6 months for what is an industry standard agreement I can't say I blame them.
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Originally Posted by N89510
I’ve been reading these posts for awhile and I think most are missing the point. As a united guy here is my experience, and why these changes were proposed.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been bumped off a flight trying to get to work by a Delta Connection (Skywest) pilot. One flight in particular this delta connection pilot, even wearing a delta lanyard got a gate agent to list him 1.5 hours prior to departure on a non Skywest flight. Since he was listed before me I didn’t make the flight because we were in the same priority level. That pilot flies purely delta feed, wears a delta lanyard and he bumped me off an airplane that literally says United on the side of it, and had a placard in the cockpit that says “owned by United Airlines”.
These priority levels are programmed into the system by United, not ualpa. Why would United not want to give priority to me over a delta connection pilot?
Nothing in that proposal was giving priority over you on your own metal. Skywest was given the proposal in May, and chose not to sign it. I feel like sapa thinks they are the ones that have the upper hand and should have been the ones making the proposal. The airplanes don’t say Skywest on the side, they say United, delta, etc. Skywest is a subcontractor. It is a jumpseat agreement. Sapa was given the agreement and choose no to sign it. Therefore there is no agreement and you get lumped in with American, Southwest etc. sign it and you get moved up a priority level.
Almost every crew I have interacted with at Skywest have been professional crews that would be a great addition to any of the big 3. I have also had experience with your lifers who don’t list for the jumpseat and show up 30 minutes prior and give a little smirk as they bump you off the flight. It seems like those are the ones sending you down this rabbit hole. I am sure as a lifer they want to enjoy their pass benifits on all the big three and the ability to bump me off of other united express carriers. But these United pilots you are denying the jumpseat to will be your coworkers someday.
I hope this gets rectified soon, but in the mean time I will do as my union has asked me to do and file a report every time I get denied the jumpseat.
^^^
This
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Originally Posted by N89510
If you fly for Skywest than you know that wouldn’t be possible. At ORD the crews fly for both United and American. I’m sure it’s that same at other domiciled too. Again, why wouldn’t united be a higher priority after own metal. United is the creator of that flying. United Airlines wants to protect their operation and get their pilots to work. In the absence of being able to designate designated crews which you know is not possible the only way to do it is exclusive vs non exclusive carriers.
It’s not a false narrative . I live it every time I commute. I have missed trips so a delta connection dedicated pilot could commute.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by treelark
So United IT woke up last week and decided to throw the previous jumpseat priority out the window on their own? Sure.
As far as "proposing an agreement", what really happened is more like telling your kids "We're having liver and onions for dinner." There's no agreement there, that's "eat it or go hungry."
Again, said industry standard agreement was sent in May.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
The big unknown is the new “must ride” UAL personnel... so i show up for a OO flight. And a UA pilot that missed his first commutes calls and gets this new “must ride” and kicks me and a FAA guy off a OO jumpseat...
We don't understand this either and its not standard with the other carriers. IMHO it should be removed or clear definitions set.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
This isnt the first time UA has done something to get around priority. Remember the “vacation pass” issue ... im fine if they would gibe express pilots some also..
Vacation passes are left over from CAL and we would love to get rid of them. Unfortunately the other workgroups love them.
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Originally Posted by The Good Life
UALPA forces a non-negotiated "agreement" on Skywest pilots and somehow Skywest pilots are the ones getting the blame for the repercussions? Unreal.
UALPA - pitting pilots groups against each other for three decades. Congrats on yet another unnecessary conflict. Things must be going pretty well over there to have to come picking on us little guys.
I fear UALPA has a short term memory and has forgotten all the ways Skywest has bailed them out. (Does anyone recall when UAL was unable to make payroll and came to Skywest for a loan?)
So now, Skywest pilots are simply trying to protect jumpseat priority and all of a sudden, careers are being threatened? Only UALPA could come up with this brilliant plan. Skywest pilots didn't ask for this. UALPA could solve this in one quick phone call.
"You need to agree with us or we'll ruin your career!" How professional.
Let the representative pilot groups work this out. Getting overly dramatic about all this is an embarrassment to our profession.
"Little guys", you guys always tell us how big you are. How Skywest Mainline flies 60% of our departures. You're only the little guys when it's convenient.
How long are Skywest old timers gonna quote "the loan"? I was around then and how much growth have you gotten since then in return for that loan?
No careers are gonna be ruined unless you happen to deny a jumpseat to an interview Captain and he/she happens to do your interview. And even the I doubt it.
If you're just protecting jumpseat priority, why did no one bat an eye when Delta did the same thing. I'm gonna guess it's because 99% of SAPA dudes live in SLC, wanna work for Delta, and didn't wanna rock the boat. Food for thought.
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