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Not illegal, unfortunately.
Say three days off... Pilot can be required to check his schedule "periodically" on his days off as long as he: 1) Has a 30 hour break somewhere in there. 2) Is not required to check his schedule within 10 hours of show. This is work rules, not regulatory. Basically the company is assuming that anyone can check their schedule anywhere at any time on their phone, so it doesn't really interfere with contractual days off (except you can't go on an excursion out of cell-phone/internet coverage, which is actually an issue for of the Rocky Mountain folks). The company is also assuming they own your butt starting at 0001 on your first work day. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2574087)
Not illegal, unfortunately.
Say three days off... Pilot can be required to check his schedule "periodically" on his days off as long as he: 1) Has a 30 hour break somewhere in there. 2) Is not required to check his schedule within 10 hours of show. This is work rules, not regulatory. Basically the company is assuming that anyone can check their schedule anywhere at any time on their phone, so it doesn't really interfere with contractual days off (except you can't go on an excursion out of cell-phone/internet coverage, which is actually an issue for of the Rocky Mountain folks). The company is also assuming they own your butt starting at 0001 on your first work day. |
Originally Posted by GearUpHeadDown
(Post 2574116)
The company can’t control your movements on your days off. Couldn’t every reserve just say that they were out of coverage area until their RAP started?
In 121 you just need 30 hours free of duty somewhere in there, and 10 hours prior to duty. Very easy and legal for the company to require that you check your schedule ten hours prior to the earliest report time, say 0500. So they could require you check in at 1900 the night before. If no adjusted report time, then they can assign you a SC RAP start time and cut you lose for at least ten hours. The only thing preventing that is a contract, but sounds like SAPA gave that away (accidentally or otherwise). |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2574139)
"Days Off" is not regulatory. That's contractual/company policy. Any company could require their employees to be available for contact 24/7, and many do in the non-aviation world. In fact many corporate aviation pilots are 24/7. The company can require that you stay connected (ie no hiking excursions in Nepal unless you bring an Iridium phone).
In 121 you just need 30 hours free of duty somewhere in there, and 10 hours prior to duty. Very easy and legal for the company to require that you check your schedule ten hours prior to the earliest report time, say 0500. So they could require you check in at 1900 the night before. If no adjusted report time, then they can assign you a SC RAP start time and cut you lose for at least ten hours. The only thing preventing that is a contract, but sounds like SAPA gave that away (accidentally or otherwise). |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2574139)
"Days Off" is not regulatory. That's contractual/company policy. Any company could require their employees to be available for contact 24/7, and many do in the non-aviation world. In fact many corporate aviation pilots are 24/7. The company can require that you stay connected (ie no hiking excursions in Nepal unless you bring an Iridium phone).
In 121 you just need 30 hours free of duty somewhere in there, and 10 hours prior to duty. Very easy and legal for the company to require that you check your schedule ten hours prior to the earliest report time, say 0500. So they could require you check in at 1900 the night before. If no adjusted report time, then they can assign you a SC RAP start time and cut you lose for at least ten hours. The only thing preventing that is a contract, but sounds like SAPA gave that away (accidentally or otherwise). And FWIW, most corporate pilots are absolutely not "on-call" 24/7. I came from the 91/135 world and I can count only 2 or 3 companies that require a 24/7 "on call", and if you get called you then go into rest. My previous company was on-call 8a-6p if you weren't scheduled for a trip, and if you get called during your on-call period you can be on duty until 10pm (14 hours max). |
Originally Posted by E6BAV8R
(Post 2574212)
Has this loophole been brought up in the current negotiations?
And FWIW, most corporate pilots are absolutely not "on-call" 24/7. I came from the 91/135 world and I can count only 2 or 3 companies that require a 24/7 "on call", and if you get called you then go into rest. My previous company was on-call 8a-6p if you weren't scheduled for a trip, and if you get called during your on-call period you can be on duty until 10pm (14 hours max). I didn't say "most" were on call. But in 91 there are no rules, you can be on call 24/7 and expected to report to work at any time. I'm not suggesting that's a good idea for 121. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2574279)
The loophole was apparently CREATED by current negotiations, ie it did not exist a few months ago.
I didn't say "most" were on call. But in 91 there are no rules, you can be on call 24/7 and expected to report to work at any time. I'm not suggesting that's a good idea for 121. This was my experience with 91 and 135 as well. I thought reserve at Skywest wasn’t bad compared to that. I bid reserve until the proffering issue came up. I took one look at it and said “nope.” Fortunately I was senior enough to hold a line. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
About how long is it to hold a line at LAX or FAT these days?
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2574139)
"Days Off" is not regulatory. That's contractual/company policy. Any company could require their employees to be available for contact 24/7, and many do in the non-aviation world. In fact many corporate aviation pilots are 24/7. The company can require that you stay connected (ie no hiking excursions in Nepal unless you bring an Iridium phone).
In 121 you just need 30 hours free of duty somewhere in there, and 10 hours prior to duty. Very easy and legal for the company to require that you check your schedule ten hours prior to the earliest report time, say 0500. So they could require you check in at 1900 the night before. If no adjusted report time, then they can assign you a SC RAP start time and cut you lose for at least ten hours. The only thing preventing that is a contract, but sounds like SAPA gave that away (accidentally or otherwise). It is illegal because of the FAA defined meanings of the words involved. Specific legal definitions. Rest is a false lead. |
Originally Posted by guppy69
(Post 2574367)
About how long is it to hold a line at LAX or FAT these days?
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