2/12 hire date

it all depends. There is no way of knowing. If the company exercises the options on the 175s, there will be plenty to go around. But for now there is no debate at all about FO seniority. CRJ FOs will move up their base list. EMB FOs will go up, get pushed down or stagnate in their base seniority on a month to month basis. It's rare to get displaced out of your base. That only happens if a base is losing a considerable amount of flying that exceeds the regular attrition of pilots bidding over to bases or upgrading. Once you hold it you hold it. But just cause you are awarded SEA EMB FO, doesn't mean you are going to move up with any haste. Any FO that is senior to you that is awarded SEA FO after you is going on top of you.

For people in the industry this is not news. But I was absolutely shocked at how many of the pilots (CFI first time 121 guys/gals) in my new hire class had absolutely no idea about seniority.

Things always change, the one thing that irks me is the whole "upgrade is going to be 18 months" mentality. That would require a combination of accelerated attrition, even more than the current rate, and an I ncrease in contracts. Which requires 3 things. Aircraft. Not a problem right now. Bodies to fill the seats, not too bad of a problem today, but it could be in the next two years. Gotta replace the ones leaving as well as hire, and train to expand. On top of those two a company has to have a training department that can keep it all moving.

" Upgrade time" simply means, who was the most junior pilot that could hold the most junior captain bid system wide when various vacancies are announced. Yeah it was 2 years and 4 months on the last award. But that was back filling DTW. All the other bases and all the other equipment are more senior. 30 ORD crj FOs are more senior than the most junior captain. That is just one base/AC FO list. Just cause you "can" upgrade in 28 months. Doesn't necessarily mean you "want to" or "should" and the only way to know that is to fast forward in time and look back to see how long you were a reserve captain in a base that you are commuting to.

Pick an aircraft and a base that you want to live in or have no problems commuting to. Fly the line, enjoy your time at work and your time off. Upgrade when it makes the most sense to you. But don't just fumble into a situation with the idea that you're going to upgrade to the AC and or base that you want to in 28 months cause upgrade time for one pilot today,who wanted DTW CRJ captain was hired 28 months ago. Things change.

This was directed at new pilots in the application process in general, not you specifically Apokleros. Sorry for the dissertation but it's crazy that new FOs dont research this and ask questions before accepting a CJO. They just blindly rely on one dynamic number that they read on APC or whatever a recruiter tells them. Current Junior Captian at Envoy is 8 years??? Recruiters saying 3. How does that work? EVery captain going to pack up and move on next month? Who knows. Good news is, it's better at regionals than its been in a long time. Best of luck bro.

Couldn't agree more. I'm the current most jr award, and when I got hired, the most jr captain was a 7 year FO when e got his award.

So yes, things change, and they changed for the better in my tenure, but they can just as easily swing the other way

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To all the new guys/gals. This guy gets it.

Your choice of aircraft as a new hire has nothing to do with how long you will upgrade. There always seems to be confusion with this. You can be hired as an FO on the ERJ, and fly that until your overall companywide seniority is enough to upgrade to the CRJ.

That said, are many FO's making lateral moves these days? Seems like with upgrade time coming down more FO's are choosing to stay on their original equipment so as to not seat lock themselves should upgrade come along sooner. So if you start out on the ERJ, I don't see THAT many FO's senior to you making the lateral move from the CRJ.

Quoted for emphasis. Words to live by

Currently live in Dallas but looking to move into base at some point in the future. If I stay in Dallas, what would be the easiest commutable domicile to fly out of? I'm thinking ORD since it has both United and AA flights. I could drive to IAH but sounds like that's closing down soon.

Chicago is probably easiest, it's junior, and you have American, United and also southwest if u have to go through midway.

Spirit too!


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There isn't a wrong answer but Denver is slightly shorter commute with similar options, Spirit, Frontier, United and American, with SouthWest going to the same airport in KDEN. If you have friends family or loved ones, originating your commute out of the "wrong" airport is less of a hassle than it sounds.
You could even two leg it through COS, if it came to that.
Try them both out if you want.