Peacock

I’m pretty sure I will, I just haven’t decided how long to put in for. I wish it was six month increments

Cysco4120

I signed up for the 5 year ExTO yesterday. Just the wife and I and very little debt so we can live very comfortably on 55tfp a month at the top of the FO scale. We have a farm that keeps us busy so no problem finding stuff to do. Looking forward to not commuting. Doubt I will actually be out anywhere near 5 years. Either come back when we start upgrading again one day or always have the option to come back earlier when they start looking for volunteers to come back.

The past few days a few friends who weren’t really thinking about taking ExTO are all taking it now. All senior FO’s that commute. They are all submitting this weekend. The company probably hasn’t seen the numbers they want but I really think the sign ups for both programs will be very significant in the last 2 or 3 days before it closes.

WHACKMASTER

I understand where you’re coming from and yes it is easier for me to say hell no to concessions, but I’ve watched the biz play out for over two decades now, so to be honest even if I was “Dean” himself I’d like to think I’d still tell them to go pound sand on concessions to our contract. The same one that took years to get.

flensr

No concessions is a nice sentiment.

That said, I can't stay here on 55TFP, and I'll probably have to move and disrupt my whole family and kids' school if I get furloughed. So EXTO, VSP, and furlough would all force me to move in addition to trying to find another job. After 26 yrs in the AF, I don't want to move again. So if I was offered an opportunity to, perhaps, *vote*, lets just say, on an offer to drop my min guarantee to 70 (about what I need to live here) for x months, WTF am I supposed to do? I'm in the bottom 10%, furlough bait all over me and I can't wash it off.

I get it that someone who already makes more than me who isn't at risk of furlough may not be inclined to approve any temporary pay cut. Those people likely took it in the shorts during previous downturns and they've paid their dues. Furthermore, If they could handle a pay cut now (mathematically or emotionally, doesn't matter) they'd be taking VSP or EXTO anyhow. But on the exact same line of reasoning, why should I vote to get my pay cut to zero and have to move in order for someone, who again already makes more than me, to not also take a hit?

I'm not mad at anyone, won't be either. Everyone votes what they think is right. But damned if I'm going to vote myself out of a job so someone with a fatter paycheck and fatter 401k than me can avoid taking a small temporary hit like everyone else. I don't think anyone thinks we would be required to make permanent changes to the CBA. That probably wouldn't be legal anyhow, given that we're in negotiations. Remember, we're talking about specific changes for specific periods of time, not making permanent changes to a CBA that is expiring anyhow.

My respect to everyone taking VSP or EXTO. I'll be in their debt for the rest of my career. But the "no concessions" rallying cry works only up until the company drops the ultimatum and we vote.

Assuming we even get a vote, that is. Reading between the lines it sounds like a lot of people don't even want the choice, they just want to be told what's going to happen to them (and then later complain and second guess it, whatever *it* turns out to be).

There was a warning about rise in tribalism in a SWAPA communication a couple of months ago. Could this issue split the group worse than the tie dispute did last time. One mark of a person's character is if their ideals survive tough time.

RckyMtHigh

Exactly what we’re doing. It’s either going to be the time of our lives or a total x%&#show.

Psycho18th

Now that there’s ExTO, lowering guarantee is a non-starter. Would be an interesting vote to see, maybe more than a 40% turnout even.

pilotrob23

I thought we were going to 3300 the second week of Aug? What were we, 4000 pre-Covid? Very interested to see how this plays out.

at6d

A reduced line guarantee would be a drop in the bucket vs. losing $20M per day. If things get any worse, 100% of the pilots could take a zero paycheck and it wouldn’t help.

Lewbronski

That’s not the reason to vote against concessions.

Feom your description, it sounds like you’re pretty new to the industry.

The reason to vote against concessions is because you want to have a career that’s worth coming back to. Contract improvements are incredibly hard-fought. It takes years to obtain incremental improvements. Each time our profession has faced difficult times, we have collectively ended up taking giant steps backwards. Our profession is a shadow of its former self and was only recently beginning to gain some ground.

All of that work over years and years would be undone in the span of some months. History has proven it will take close to a decade to regain some of what was lost. History has also proven that we have yet to get back all that was lost.

Besides, airline management executives have demonstrated in multiple instances that voting for concessions to stave off furloughs doesn’t often actually prevent furloughs.

saab2000

Submitted my bid for the 5-year option. Let’s see how the chips fall.

Obviously, I expect I’ll have to do some other work but I also expect I can do fine on the 55 TFP if I had to. It will be interesting to see the bid awards for VSP and ExTO, assuming they’re published.